The CD turns 25
Aug 23, 2007 at 3:25 PM Post #31 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But why would people pay for bittorrent or distributed content pushing, if they don't get anything for uploading?


The way I envisioned it was that consumers would get a price break on the product provided that they maintain a particular ratio.

An interesting side situation is that the ISPs are currently charging premiums (can't this be premia?
smily_headphones1.gif
) for decent upload rates, so as an incentive for consumers to lower their ratios, they will purchase fatter pipes, so the consumer isn't actually paying any less for the music at the end of the day, but the money is being widely distributed into bandwidth, as opposed to one HUGE pipe coming out of, say, Apple or the labels or whomever.
 
Sep 12, 2007 at 7:28 AM Post #32 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyL /img/forum/go_quote.gif
ICD has always been a poor medium. 44KHz/16bit is just too tight.


I agree completely. Even the very best CDs, no matter how well engineered are still hard and closed sounding, lacking in the free, unforced, airy top end and the transparency of higher resolution formats. Granted, I have heard more than my fair share of abysmal recordings at 24-96 as well, but all other things being equal the minimum resolution required for high fidelity reproduction is 16-48, but preferably 24-48. Certainly not CD which I consider to be nothing more than a convenient mid-fi format. After I first heard live DAT recordings I realised that CD had missed the boat so to speak.

I wish it had been 16-48 right from the start. I would have been more than happy to have a reduced program length for the sake of decent quality sound. Even Telarc back in the 1970s realised the poor potential of low resolution digital, insisting on recording at a 50Khz sample rate right from the very beginning. Of course their recordings - as with many decent masters -were then ruined by the resampling process required for the CD standard.

Since high resolution recordings have been made available for download on the net, I 've stopped buying CDs and only listen to them with the same non-critical approach that adopt when I listen to the radio.
 
Sep 12, 2007 at 2:59 PM Post #33 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I agree completely. Even the very best CDs, no matter how well engineered are still hard and closed sounding, lacking in the free, unforced, airy top end and the transparency of higher resolution formats. Granted, I have heard more than my fair share of abysmal recordings at 24-96 as well, but all other things being equal the minimum resolution required for high fidelity reproduction is 16-48, but preferably 24-48. Certainly not CD which I consider to be nothing more than a convenient mid-fi format. After I first heard live DAT recordings I realised that CD had missed the boat so to speak.

I wish it had been 16-48 right from the start. I would have been more than happy to have a reduced program length for the sake of decent quality sound. Even Telarc back in the 1970s realised the poor potential of low resolution digital, insisting on recording at a 50Khz sample rate right from the very beginning. Of course their recordings - as with many decent masters -were then ruined by the resampling process required for the CD standard.

Since high resolution recordings have been made available for download on the net, I 've stopped buying CDs and only listen to them with the same non-critical approach that adopt when I listen to the radio.



Not true, with a good amp, good cdplayer and a good xrcd or xrcd2 recording, they really sound good and not harsh at all.

Normal cd's wich have been recorded at max. levels sound harsh and distorted.
 
Sep 12, 2007 at 3:12 PM Post #34 of 52
I'm not buying CDs in stores for last 5-6 years, everything online, mainly due to price and selection advantages - so it's not that old good feeling I used to get visiting records store anyways.

The only reason for CD being still so strong is lack of convenient hardware support for alternative formats for mass market - virtually all mass market home audio systems accept CD, few offshoots towards hard drive or flash based sources are not well known, and not even close in convenience of simply taking CD out of the box and putting it into CD player tray.
And it will be so as long as there's no just as easy and user-transparent way to work with audio files.
 
Sep 12, 2007 at 6:30 PM Post #35 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not true, with a good amp, good cdplayer and a good xrcd or xrcd2 recording, they really sound good and not harsh at all.


'Not true'?? Isn't that very dogmatic? Can't you be satisfied with saying that you disagree?

I think it is true. 16bit/44KHz imposes a limitation that prevents the Red Book format from ever being a carrier of high quality sound. It doesn't even better vinyl, which it was supposed to replace, and which still lives. Both my vinyl and CD setups cost about £500 and the way the room fills with music when I put vinyl on after listening to Cd takes my breath away.
 
Sep 12, 2007 at 8:14 PM Post #36 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not true, with a good amp, good cdplayer and a good xrcd or xrcd2 recording, they really sound good and not harsh at all.


You don't need a XRCD or XRCD2 (or XRCD24) mastering to have a good sounding CD. After all, XRCDs are regular CD. As long as care is taken to maximize sound quality, a regular CD, when played back on a good CD player, can sound excellent.
 
Sep 12, 2007 at 8:49 PM Post #37 of 52
To celebrate, I'm re-ripping my entire CD collection to 320kbps... First time I've touched most of my CDs in years.
 
Sep 12, 2007 at 10:33 PM Post #38 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif
are still hard and closed sounding, lacking in the free, unforced, airy top end and the transparency of higher resolution formats.


Can you please explain to me what you are trying to say?
 
Sep 13, 2007 at 3:02 AM Post #39 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by ozz /img/forum/go_quote.gif
better question where does the music go when these hard drives crash
or flash drive won't unlock data.



Ya and what happens to your CD when the data layer deteriorates?
 
Sep 13, 2007 at 3:39 AM Post #40 of 52
[rant]

I refuse to believe that lossless online music distribution is expensive because of bandwidth prices; the price of music is in the licensing, not the medium itself, which is inconsequential, whether it be CD, reusable flash, the internet, or whatever.

I'm not advocating anything here, but i want to illustrate a point:

Anyone who has ever browsed Usenet knows that the audio groups are FULL of lossless files. Premium Usenet access (that is, not the crappy access that comes with your ISP account) with a ~20GB/month limit is roughly $10/month, and unlimited access is about $20/month. The point I'm making here is that these binary Usenet servers are dealing primarily with copyright material, which means no licensing fees, and $20/month is enough to allow someone unlimited download access and still turn a substantial profit. And most Usenet users aren't what I'd call "light" downloaders.

Another case in point is AllOfMP3.com. Yes it violated copyrights, and yes it had its problems, but let's set that aside for a minute. Way back when it first sprung up, I was a user of the site. I used it because it offered high quality DRM-free files, a huge selection, and it was straight forward. AllOfMP3.com didn't have to bother with securing deals with multiple record companies, or negotiating special track pricing, etc... etc... I never really thought about its legitimacy, I liked it because it was simple, and a one-stop-shop.

The problem with legitimate online music stores is that they have to deal with complexities and bureaucracy ad nauseum.

Record companies are so short sighted and narrow minded that when you ask them to come up with a viable online music distribution system, instead you get a dozen bastardized systems, none of which are sufficient in of themselves, and all of which sell low quality DRM laden versions of tracks you can get on CD with fewer headaches.

Sure the free thing is an incentive to pirate music, but really people do it because it's simple, it's fast, and there's a wide selection of priated works available. The two examples I gave, Usenet and AllOfMP3, are both pay services, just not legal ones. People don't mind paying, they just mind paying for crap.


Anyway, what am I getting at here? The CD is a great format because it's really the only legal, cheap, one-stop-shop for (relatively) DRM free music. All major labels put their music out on CD's and sell it in major record stores. All of that music is encoded at 44.1Khz/16-bit.

And just to be sure, I do buy all of my music, but you certainly won't catch me doing it on any medium other than CD until that medium can be considered a total replacement for the CD.

[/rant]
 
Sep 13, 2007 at 4:02 AM Post #41 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeChuck /img/forum/go_quote.gif
[rant]

I refuse to believe that lossless online music distribution is expensive because of bandwidth prices; the price of music is in the licensing, not the medium itself, which is inconsequential, whether it be CD, reusable flash, the internet, or whatever.

I'm not advocating anything here, but i want to illustrate a point:

Anyone who has ever browsed Usenet knows that the audio groups are FULL of lossless files. Premium Usenet access (that is, not the crappy access that comes with your ISP account) with a ~20GB/month limit is roughly $10/month, and unlimited access is about $20/month. The point I'm making here is that these binary Usenet servers are dealing primarily with copyright material, which means no licensing fees, and $20/month is enough to allow someone unlimited download access and still turn a substantial profit. And most Usenet users aren't what I'd call "light" downloaders.

Another case in point is AllOfMP3.com. Yes it violated copyrights, and yes it had its problems, but let's set that aside for a minute. Way back when it first sprung up, I was a user of the site. I used it because it offered high quality DRM-free files, a huge selection, and it was straight forward. AllOfMP3.com didn't have to bother with securing deals with multiple record companies, or negotiating special track pricing, etc... etc... I never really thought about its legitimacy, I liked it because it was simple, and a one-stop-shop.

The problem with legitimate online music stores is that they have to deal with complexities and bureaucracy ad nauseum.

Record companies are so short sighted and narrow minded that when you ask them to come up with a viable online music distribution system, instead you get a dozen bastardized systems, none of which are sufficient in of themselves, and all of which sell low quality DRM laden versions of tracks you can get on CD with fewer headaches.

Sure the free thing is an incentive to pirate music, but really people do it because it's simple, it's fast, and there's a wide selection of priated works available. The two examples I gave, Usenet and AllOfMP3, are both pay services, just not legal ones. People don't mind paying, they just mind paying for crap.


Anyway, what am I getting at here? The CD is a great format because it's really the only legal, cheap, one-stop-shop for (relatively) DRM free music. All major labels put their music out on CD's and sell it in major record stores. All of that music is encoded at 44.1Khz/16-bit.

And just to be sure, I do buy all of my music, but you certainly won't catch me doing it on any medium other than CD until that medium can be considered a total replacement for the CD.

[/rant]



That post is so gonna get deleted by the MAN...

Along with this one, I presume.

Babyboomers are such a hypocritical generation, man. Civil rights one decade then censorship the next.

But yeah, happy birthday, Compact Disk. May we have Perfect Sound Forever.
 
Sep 13, 2007 at 4:09 AM Post #42 of 52
The CD will be around for at least the next 25 years. In a few years when the current (also the last) generation of vinyl junkies died off, my generation will carry on the torch of mindlessly supporting an obsolete format regardless of inferior technical specs or objective reasoning. CDs will be around indeed, I'll see to that.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Sep 13, 2007 at 12:24 PM Post #43 of 52
The last generation?
I'm 26 years old, and I'm still listening LP's and 12" singles. My vinyl collection is near 1000.
I think that vinyl sounds better than cd, but I know that cd is more practical.
And I also think that inferior technical specs is not equal to inferior listening experience.
Cd and vinyl will live both at least 20 years.
 
Sep 13, 2007 at 2:51 PM Post #44 of 52
I dont think optical storage media will last another 25 years. Solid-state is getting more affordable and is way smaller - look at a 2Gb SD card... and it is growing.

However - I see a bright future for vinyl. Will never go mass-market again but it sure is growing...!

GD
 
Sep 13, 2007 at 4:46 PM Post #45 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The CD will be around for at least the next 25 years. In a few years when the current (also the last) generation of vinyl junkies died off, my generation will carry on the torch of mindlessly supporting an obsolete format regardless of inferior technical specs or objective reasoning. CDs will be around indeed, I'll see to that.
smily_headphones1.gif



The disks themselves may survive if they don't rot, but unless manufacturers continue to support CD as a legacy format which is far from certain, finding a machine to play them back on may present more difficulties.

At least with records it's absolutely certain there will still be record players as they are just a rubber band and a simple motor which can be (are) knocked up easily in a small garage workshop.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top