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Quote:
nice but as clumsy as you are your grandmother gonna freak when you break the glass table. Not recommended. LOL
The Beta22/Sigma22 amp has arrived Review added!
- Thread starter baka1969
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Quote:
nice but as clumsy as you are your grandmother gonna freak when you break the glass table. Not recommended. LOL
baka1969
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Quote:Originally Posted by Frank I
"nice but as clumsy as you are your grandmother gonna freak when you break the glass table. Not recommended. LOL"
It's half my house too! LoL. Glass wouldn't make for the best support.
It goes in my room/office anyway. If I were to keep the GLite, it would go in the living room. I'd need a new headphone and source. So, for now, I'll just be happy with the B22.
"nice but as clumsy as you are your grandmother gonna freak when you break the glass table. Not recommended. LOL"
It's half my house too! LoL. Glass wouldn't make for the best support.
It goes in my room/office anyway. If I were to keep the GLite, it would go in the living room. I'd need a new headphone and source. So, for now, I'll just be happy with the B22.
I found the HD800 matches very well with the B22 3-board, although the HD800 also works well with warmer amps like the Corda Opera. On the other hand, IMO, the B22 is the only amp I have heard that raises the Beyer T1 to the same level as the HD800.
TheAudioDude
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Very nice. I've been giving some very light thought about building a balanced B22 to go with my D7000s.
diego
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The pot is a Goldpoint mini-v stepped attenuator. You should at least turn the volume down as you did but I always turned the amp off when unplugging. That's why I used a locking jack, to avoid accidentally pulling the headphones while playing. I don't remember hearing anything when turning the amp on with the phones plugged in so I think the amp is safe in that respect.
If you stack the amp over the PS you might hear some hum. Try to use separate shelves for them.
Regards,
Diego
If you stack the amp over the PS you might hear some hum. Try to use separate shelves for them.
Regards,
Diego
baka1969
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Quote:Originally Posted by diego
"The pot is a Goldpoint mini-v stepped attenuator. You should at least turn the volume down as you did but I always turned the amp off when unplugging. That's why I used a locking jack, to avoid accidentally pulling the headphones while playing. I don't remember hearing anything when turning the amp on with the phones plugged in so I think the amp is safe in that respect.
If you stack the amp over the PS you might hear some hum. Try to use separate shelves for them.
Regards,Diego"
Thanks Diego. I will turn off the amp before removing the plug.
"The pot is a Goldpoint mini-v stepped attenuator. You should at least turn the volume down as you did but I always turned the amp off when unplugging. That's why I used a locking jack, to avoid accidentally pulling the headphones while playing. I don't remember hearing anything when turning the amp on with the phones plugged in so I think the amp is safe in that respect.
If you stack the amp over the PS you might hear some hum. Try to use separate shelves for them.
Regards,Diego"
Thanks Diego. I will turn off the amp before removing the plug.
^^^ Glad to hear you're enjoying the new addition Ross!
Just try and get some sleep though.
Just try and get some sleep though.
echosf
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Congrats!! can't wait to see your review next week.
baka1969
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Before I get into my impressions and compare this amp with the highly regarded Gilmore Lite I want to say that while doing the A/B comparisons with the Beta22 and the Gilmore Lite I was reminded just how great the GLite+DPS really is. I may not have listened to every amp out there or had in my possession as many as some fellow Head-Fi'ers, but I think I've listened to enough to know what I like and dislike. I've heard good and bad amps. At different price levels. The Gilmore Lite (and other Dr. Gilmore dynalo designs) are terrific little amps. They're dynamic, fast, clear, balanced and effortless. They drive almost anything. It's my belief that for under $1k there are few solid state amps that can beat it. When you factor in the street prices for preowned ones that are generally around $500, it seems like it's an amp that should be on anyone's short list who is looking for a pretty damn nice solid state amp.
But, as things go in this hobby and life in general, there is that pursuit for reaching that goal towards, dare I say it, perfection. The "live" event. Exactly as the artist intended. No matter how elusive it is to attain it, I think most of us in this hobby want it and hope to some day get there. So it goes with the Beta22. As good as the GLite is, the three channel, two chassis Beta22 with Sigma22 power supply is a marked improvement and seems, to me, to get me closer to that ghost we all chase of flawless music reproduction.
Let me take the time to say that my B22 has a Goldpoint 24 stepped attenuator versus the infinitely adjustable volume pot the GLite uses. The kicker is that there is 2db difference per click on the B22. That doesn't leave for as precise volume adjustments as the GL does. I'd like to find one like on the Concerto that has (I think) 64 steps. Other than that, all is well with the B22.
This B22 build is a large amp. It is literally 8 times larger in volume than the diminutive GLite. It weighs about 15lbs for both chassis. It's not a tank nor is it a feather weight. It even dwarfs my Dacmagic. It's more akin to a full sized rack piece than what I'm used to in headphone amps. Hell, it's even quite a bit larger than the Phonitor. So the Beta22 probably won't be your bedside rig.
Before listening to both amps I volume matched them to both 80db and 84db using pink noise with my Radio Shack SPL meter. All music is played through my computer. The music is all lossless utilizing either apple lossless or .wav files. iTunes is the music player. My DAC is the DacMagic. I listened to a diverse mix of music including rock, metal, jazz, classical and spoken word passages. I'll be using the HD800 exclusively for this review.
Please remember these are only my opinions, using my ears. YMMV.
The first thing I noticed about the Beta22 when compared to the GLite is the B22 has more bass impact. The second thing I noticed was the upper mids and highs are slightly pushed back. Noticed I didn't say recessed? That's because the highs aren't. They're just ever so lightly further back. So if anyone ever thought the Gilmore Lite or the HD800 was in any way bright, the B22 deals with that.
Another thing I noticed is the Beta22 needs to be fully warmed up before it sounds it's best. Before it's warm it can be a bit harsh and slightly sibilant. When up to operating temp that all dissipates.
The Beta22's sum is greater than the total of all the individual strengths. If you were to take everything that's good about the Gilmore Lite and improve upon it, that's what the B22 seems like to me.
SOUNDSTAGE and IMAGING: The Gilmore Lite and the HD800 already make for a great paring in terms of the perceived soundstage. It's open, wide and notes seem to have their own space.Where the Beta22 separates itself is the added depth and further space the notes have. All without any disconnect to the music. Imaging is downright eerie on the B22. In a good way. I seem to be surrounded by the music and can point to every instrument. And as Radiohead says "everything in it's right place". When the music pans from left to right it does so in such a natural way to almost make you feel like you're there. Dire Straits' Ride Across the River is a perfect example. You can picture yourself outside with the crickets chirping all around you at night while listening to this song. More than ever with the B22, I just know I'm sitting in a smoky jazz lounge listening to Miles, Coltrane, Chambers and Cobb strutting their wares to So What and Flamenco Sketches. It's all there.
CLARITY and DETAIL: Clarity is something I covet greatly with an amp. The GLite has is in spades. There just doesn't seem to have any veil when listening to music. That is, until you listen to the Beta22. Everyone hates cliches. But how do you describe something and not use it? Simple. The Beta22 is clearer than the GL. Not by a large margin. But it's enough to make a marked improvement. Since the added clarity spans from top to bottom, it really makes a difference.With the added clarity comes added detail retrieval. I'm a detail freak so added detail is always welcome. One good example of how the added detail and clarity improves is the song On The Run off DSotM. I can hear the entire woman's PA announcement at the airport. It's audible and decernible throughout her announcement with the B22. With the GLite she becomes a bit less distinct towards the end.
BASS: Take the bass again. Not only does the bass have better impact next to the GLite, it extends deeper and has more control. The bass is also more textured and layered. When I listened to Pink Floyd's song One Of These Days, (which I use as a reference for bass definition) the delineation between the two bass lines was better defined with the B22. Throughout the Kind Of Blue album Paul Chambers' bass playing reveals more depth and texture when played through the B22. The bass seems to just reverb through the air.I use Come Together off Abby Road as an example of bass impact. And not only does it have the requisite slam, it has dimension to it that the GLite doesn't seem to bring out.
TREBLE: I don't fear treble. I don't shy away from highs. I sold headphones like the HD650 and the IEM SE530 because, to me, the highs were too rolled off. The recessed top end (and compressed soundstage) is what will probably prevent me from getting the otherwise excellent LCD-2. I like headphones like Grados and the K-70x. The HD800 has excellent highs. The GLite handled the treble of the Senn well. However, all that said, the B22 dials the upper mids and highs back just a touch. Guess what? The headphone is better off for it. This doesn't effect the sound of the highs in the least. Boston's Foreplay/Long Time is my reference for testing equpiment's highs. The GLite does an admirable job at handling this song sounding crisp and refined. What the B22 does is just do it all better. The cymbals played on the B22 were as close to perfect as I've heard before.With the Beta22 the highs sound like the volume knob was turned back slightly. I used an SPL meter to see how much less the highs sounded compared to the GLite and I got an average of about 1-1.5db. It may not seem like much of a difference but it is noticeable and with the Beta22, gives the HD800 more balance overall. Whether it's rock, jazz or classical the highs on the B22 are not only more refined but, again, have more texture than with the GLite. That gives an added realism to the upper frequencies.
MIDRANGE: The thing I always liked about the GL was the mids. They're not thin. They're not rich. They just seem in line with the rest of the spectrum. The Beta22 continues this theme and expands upon it. The mids are extremely clear and vibrant. The GLite seems to get ever so slightly congested when compared to the B22 during intricate passages like some classical or quick and heavy with metal. This is only noticeable when doing a side-by-side listen. The mids on the B22 have much more authority while still being very delicate. It's not added richness like the HD650 would sound. It just seems more powerful.
But, as things go in this hobby and life in general, there is that pursuit for reaching that goal towards, dare I say it, perfection. The "live" event. Exactly as the artist intended. No matter how elusive it is to attain it, I think most of us in this hobby want it and hope to some day get there. So it goes with the Beta22. As good as the GLite is, the three channel, two chassis Beta22 with Sigma22 power supply is a marked improvement and seems, to me, to get me closer to that ghost we all chase of flawless music reproduction.
Let me take the time to say that my B22 has a Goldpoint 24 stepped attenuator versus the infinitely adjustable volume pot the GLite uses. The kicker is that there is 2db difference per click on the B22. That doesn't leave for as precise volume adjustments as the GL does. I'd like to find one like on the Concerto that has (I think) 64 steps. Other than that, all is well with the B22.
This B22 build is a large amp. It is literally 8 times larger in volume than the diminutive GLite. It weighs about 15lbs for both chassis. It's not a tank nor is it a feather weight. It even dwarfs my Dacmagic. It's more akin to a full sized rack piece than what I'm used to in headphone amps. Hell, it's even quite a bit larger than the Phonitor. So the Beta22 probably won't be your bedside rig.
Before listening to both amps I volume matched them to both 80db and 84db using pink noise with my Radio Shack SPL meter. All music is played through my computer. The music is all lossless utilizing either apple lossless or .wav files. iTunes is the music player. My DAC is the DacMagic. I listened to a diverse mix of music including rock, metal, jazz, classical and spoken word passages. I'll be using the HD800 exclusively for this review.
Please remember these are only my opinions, using my ears. YMMV.
The first thing I noticed about the Beta22 when compared to the GLite is the B22 has more bass impact. The second thing I noticed was the upper mids and highs are slightly pushed back. Noticed I didn't say recessed? That's because the highs aren't. They're just ever so lightly further back. So if anyone ever thought the Gilmore Lite or the HD800 was in any way bright, the B22 deals with that.
Another thing I noticed is the Beta22 needs to be fully warmed up before it sounds it's best. Before it's warm it can be a bit harsh and slightly sibilant. When up to operating temp that all dissipates.
The Beta22's sum is greater than the total of all the individual strengths. If you were to take everything that's good about the Gilmore Lite and improve upon it, that's what the B22 seems like to me.
SOUNDSTAGE and IMAGING: The Gilmore Lite and the HD800 already make for a great paring in terms of the perceived soundstage. It's open, wide and notes seem to have their own space.Where the Beta22 separates itself is the added depth and further space the notes have. All without any disconnect to the music. Imaging is downright eerie on the B22. In a good way. I seem to be surrounded by the music and can point to every instrument. And as Radiohead says "everything in it's right place". When the music pans from left to right it does so in such a natural way to almost make you feel like you're there. Dire Straits' Ride Across the River is a perfect example. You can picture yourself outside with the crickets chirping all around you at night while listening to this song. More than ever with the B22, I just know I'm sitting in a smoky jazz lounge listening to Miles, Coltrane, Chambers and Cobb strutting their wares to So What and Flamenco Sketches. It's all there.
CLARITY and DETAIL: Clarity is something I covet greatly with an amp. The GLite has is in spades. There just doesn't seem to have any veil when listening to music. That is, until you listen to the Beta22. Everyone hates cliches. But how do you describe something and not use it? Simple. The Beta22 is clearer than the GL. Not by a large margin. But it's enough to make a marked improvement. Since the added clarity spans from top to bottom, it really makes a difference.With the added clarity comes added detail retrieval. I'm a detail freak so added detail is always welcome. One good example of how the added detail and clarity improves is the song On The Run off DSotM. I can hear the entire woman's PA announcement at the airport. It's audible and decernible throughout her announcement with the B22. With the GLite she becomes a bit less distinct towards the end.
BASS: Take the bass again. Not only does the bass have better impact next to the GLite, it extends deeper and has more control. The bass is also more textured and layered. When I listened to Pink Floyd's song One Of These Days, (which I use as a reference for bass definition) the delineation between the two bass lines was better defined with the B22. Throughout the Kind Of Blue album Paul Chambers' bass playing reveals more depth and texture when played through the B22. The bass seems to just reverb through the air.I use Come Together off Abby Road as an example of bass impact. And not only does it have the requisite slam, it has dimension to it that the GLite doesn't seem to bring out.
TREBLE: I don't fear treble. I don't shy away from highs. I sold headphones like the HD650 and the IEM SE530 because, to me, the highs were too rolled off. The recessed top end (and compressed soundstage) is what will probably prevent me from getting the otherwise excellent LCD-2. I like headphones like Grados and the K-70x. The HD800 has excellent highs. The GLite handled the treble of the Senn well. However, all that said, the B22 dials the upper mids and highs back just a touch. Guess what? The headphone is better off for it. This doesn't effect the sound of the highs in the least. Boston's Foreplay/Long Time is my reference for testing equpiment's highs. The GLite does an admirable job at handling this song sounding crisp and refined. What the B22 does is just do it all better. The cymbals played on the B22 were as close to perfect as I've heard before.With the Beta22 the highs sound like the volume knob was turned back slightly. I used an SPL meter to see how much less the highs sounded compared to the GLite and I got an average of about 1-1.5db. It may not seem like much of a difference but it is noticeable and with the Beta22, gives the HD800 more balance overall. Whether it's rock, jazz or classical the highs on the B22 are not only more refined but, again, have more texture than with the GLite. That gives an added realism to the upper frequencies.
MIDRANGE: The thing I always liked about the GL was the mids. They're not thin. They're not rich. They just seem in line with the rest of the spectrum. The Beta22 continues this theme and expands upon it. The mids are extremely clear and vibrant. The GLite seems to get ever so slightly congested when compared to the B22 during intricate passages like some classical or quick and heavy with metal. This is only noticeable when doing a side-by-side listen. The mids on the B22 have much more authority while still being very delicate. It's not added richness like the HD650 would sound. It just seems more powerful.
baka1969
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VOCALS: The HD800 doesn't have intimate vocals like on the LCD-2 or Grado. The vocals don't seem as distant as they could on certain Denons might. What the HD800 does well is blend the vocals within the music without getting lost or being too much of a standout. Both the Gilmore Lite and Beta22 keep it that way. They make both male and female singing sound like singing. What the B22 excels at is how it reveals pitch and vibrato changes within the singer's voice. This added texture seems to give the performances added emotion. The GL isn't sterile as much as the B22 makes me believe more. Cobain's Unplugged version of Something In The Way has such passion to it you can hear the cracking in his voice while singing. If you don't fall in love with Janis Joplin while she's singing A Woman Left Lonely I believe you have lost all hope.
Krall's Gee Baby, Ain't I Good To You, Floyd's Comfortably Numb and Nirvana's Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge On Seattle are my sibilant references. On the GLite they are still apparent to various degrees. With the Beta22 all that sibilant behavior is all but gone.
THE ENTIERTY: Usually when I compare two amps or two headphones together each one has at least a strength the other doesn't. Be it the vocals, or depth or imaging, it's never simply cut and dry. I feel bad by saying the Gilmore Lite is outclassed in every way when compared to the Beta22/Sigma22. The GL is really a terrific amp. If anyone wants an amp within that price it's near the top of the heap. What has happened is the B22 is just an exceptional amp and the GL doesn't deserve to be compared to it. The fact that the little Gilmore can even stand next to it is a testament to it's ability. The Beta22 is, however, better. It can simultaneously get you listening critically and emotionally. It get's me thinking and gets me lost within the songs playing. The B22 with the HD800 has a synergy I've never experienced before in a headphone setup. It's lighting fast and highly dynamic. I truly marvel at how powerful the music can be and how delicate it is when needed. Mozart's Violin Sonata in B Flat can bring someone to tears. I love the interplay with the piano. Tool's Third Eye is a dynamic prog metal piece that puts the amp through it's paces. It sounds terrific. The B22 seems to reveal more complexity and layers of music than I've experienced prior to this. Are there better solid state amps out there? I'm not sure. The Luxman is supposed to be amazing also. Am I worried? Not in the least. For the first time I feel comfortable knowing the Beta22/Sigma22 and the HD800 are that much closer to the ghost I've been chasing. If I adjust anything it will be from my source and DAC. But, for now, I'm pretty stoked.
Thanks for reading my little piece.
THE ENTIERTY: Usually when I compare two amps or two headphones together each one has at least a strength the other doesn't. Be it the vocals, or depth or imaging, it's never simply cut and dry. I feel bad by saying the Gilmore Lite is outclassed in every way when compared to the Beta22/Sigma22. The GL is really a terrific amp. If anyone wants an amp within that price it's near the top of the heap. What has happened is the B22 is just an exceptional amp and the GL doesn't deserve to be compared to it. The fact that the little Gilmore can even stand next to it is a testament to it's ability. The Beta22 is, however, better. It can simultaneously get you listening critically and emotionally. It get's me thinking and gets me lost within the songs playing. The B22 with the HD800 has a synergy I've never experienced before in a headphone setup. It's lighting fast and highly dynamic. I truly marvel at how powerful the music can be and how delicate it is when needed. Mozart's Violin Sonata in B Flat can bring someone to tears. I love the interplay with the piano. Tool's Third Eye is a dynamic prog metal piece that puts the amp through it's paces. It sounds terrific. The B22 seems to reveal more complexity and layers of music than I've experienced prior to this. Are there better solid state amps out there? I'm not sure. The Luxman is supposed to be amazing also. Am I worried? Not in the least. For the first time I feel comfortable knowing the Beta22/Sigma22 and the HD800 are that much closer to the ghost I've been chasing. If I adjust anything it will be from my source and DAC. But, for now, I'm pretty stoked.
Thanks for reading my little piece.
^^ Absolutely brilliant post Ross!
A great read. Very informative, well thought out!
<-- Canadian Beer
A great read. Very informative, well thought out!
dannie01
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Bravo! What a great review and good reading, thanks.
Roger Strummer
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Great review! The B22 HD800 pairing really seems to be something special after reading it.
fishski13
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Ross,
the G-Lite is a bargain. for the more adventurous, this is the beauty of DIY - you can get a lot for your money. after looking at Diego's internal build pics, you have a "perfect" B22.
re: the "recessed" upper-mid-range. i agree 100%. some people may call this a "dark" amp because of this, but it suits the K70x perfect.
to my ears, your review is spot on in every other respect as well.
the G-Lite is a bargain. for the more adventurous, this is the beauty of DIY - you can get a lot for your money. after looking at Diego's internal build pics, you have a "perfect" B22.
re: the "recessed" upper-mid-range. i agree 100%. some people may call this a "dark" amp because of this, but it suits the K70x perfect.
to my ears, your review is spot on in every other respect as well.
IPodPJ
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Congrats on your recent acquisition!
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