The best $1500 Bang for buck headphone rig in 2012
Apr 29, 2012 at 2:56 AM Post #76 of 211
Okay so..
 
Orthos
I have less choices for an LCD2 rig, more for HE-500.
 
Dynamic
I can go with something like HD 650 + a really expensive amp. 
I know HD 650 can scale well, but can it compete with the $ 1k headphones. Can it compete well?
 
T1 is another option.
HD 800 I'll have to get used. 
But both might be too clinical/sterile for me.
HD 800 definitely, T1 maybe not so much.
 
Then there's the JVC phones I haven't heard much about, yet.
 
Electrostats
"Cheap" stats like SRS - 3170 or even ESP-950 (with a different amp?). Are these any good?
Most stax talk I hear about is either the SR-007 or SR-009. 
Is a used stax even possible in this budget?
 
And, not one mention of the HD 700?
 
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 3:03 AM Post #77 of 211
I'm about to pull the trigger on some LCD-2s myself.  From what I've read, they sound so musical and lush.  Right now my favorite go-to cans are the hd598 / k540.  Hope the Audez'es can take over as my one and only set, mostly classical, classic rock, some modern pop / electronic.
 
I also have about a $1500 limit, and I was thinking of the Lyr to go with the LCDs for now and wait on a dac... That seem like a decent enough idea?
 
Also concerning the hd700, I think the $1000 price tag is what puts it to the side, at least for me (whether or not it's even out yet
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).  I consider the T1 / LCD2 etc to be in league with the hd800, mind you I haven't heard any of these high end cans.  Just from what I read, I don't see what puts the hd800 as being $500 above the others, just that it's different.  I think Sennheiser just thinks a lot of themselves, not that I don't enjoy their cans but they're a big company looking to expand and make more $$$.  Proof in this just look to all their manufacturing outsourcing and now enforced MAP.
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 3:06 AM Post #78 of 211
im not sure if the HD700 is even out yet, if so not many people have listened to it yet.  Its certainly an option 
 
Just do some research on the suggested headphones and see which one you think best fits your preferences and go from there. 
 
All I can say is the HE-500 is a very very good option that sounds great with every genre
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 3:17 AM Post #79 of 211
the way to liquify a fiery hd800 is to use a hybrid amp..and it adds bottompunch.
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i would recommend this to .......myself..
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.laptop + dacportLX + hybrid like LYR + Hd800/T1 if u like to bracket your headfone in that zone...( or a hd600 / Q701 with an aftermarketcable, my feedomg zone 
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)
 
The dacportLX adds portability to your setup...has superb dac resolution...(and u can later add in a  smartlooking portable P5 /KNS8400 headfone or iem W4 for outofhouse use.)
 
Set aside a couple hundred bucks also for a USB cable..RCA...powercord... pays big dividends. 
 
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Kiteki, u are still enamored with the T5p...??? 
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    just teasing.
 
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 3:38 AM Post #80 of 211
The Lambdas (SRS-3170 = SR-307 + 323, SR-2170 = SR-207 + 252) and the ESP/950 measure better than the bulk majority of headphones ever made. Yes, they are very, very good. You do not need to replace the E/90 that comes with the ESP/950 unless you feel that tons of aluminum does anything for the performance. It's a very solid performer, and with Koss there is no reason to even talk about reliability - they do mean lifetime. STAX it's another story, but I've yet to hear about issues with any of the modern SRMs blowing up (or even old ones for that matter; the only ones I'd avoid would be the old Koss energizers (which can't drive any modern 'stats anyways and are super rare)). 
 
The ESP/950s have bigger panels than the Lambdas, so they will produce more bass (it's physics, but 'stat bass is very different from anything else - I like the "ethereal" descriptor myself ), and this is reflected in subjective listening and measurements. 
 
If "accurate" or "balanced" is the goal, you will not do better than STAX or Koss ESP. The HD 800 is one of the few dynamics that's able to "keep up" (the other dynamics that would make this list would include the Sony SA5000 and Qualia, and Audio-Technica AD2000, the Sonys are both discontinued, and the AD2000 is around $700 and JDM; I'm not saying they're all equivalent to the HD 800, they're all very "quick" and have the CSDs to prove it). 
 
The bass deserves some more mention though:
 
Bass on a 'stat does not "impact" or "slam" like it will on a dynamic headphone. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it's just a different experience. With the ESP/950s, for example, you get all of the extension and texture that a recording affords. However it will not rattle on your head (or rattle your head), it's just there, with the rest of the music, hanging out in space. Some people don't like that presentation, I suspect it's partly because it's a very dramatic departure from conventional listening, and it's partly because it's "weird" in it's own right. 
 
Going from a closed-back dynamic to an open-back stat is a pretty dramatic change, and I would not at all be surprised if you, like many users, found them "thin" out of the box. But like all accurate/balanced headphones (or speakers), it's something you either give time or pass on immediately. There is no "wow" factor (unless you're just a detail/balance nut). With electronic music, they're (imho) absolutely perfect - hard transients and quick attack/decay notes are done just perfectly. Things like synths, arps, distortion waves, all of that stuff just cuts through razor sharp. 
 
If you want something that will slam and pow and put pressure on your head when it kicks, something really "nasty," I'd look elsewhere. I'd probably look at Ultrasone (I'm a big fan of all-or-nothing) - lots of bass (from what I suspect is a high-Q enclosure) and they still manage great imaging and decent fidelity (all of that wonderful electronic distortion will still come through razor sharp). Not quite as fast, not quite as accurate, but they can still be plenty fun. 
 
Everything above the bass is just spot-on - vocals, mid-range instruments (keys, strings, arps, etc), and treble - it's all just right there. Never strained either. There are a few dynamics that can do vocals and the mid-range just as good imho (but that's all they've got), the treble is hard to compete with for a dynamic, most of them end up at least a touch harsh. 
 
Used STAX - yeah, very possible, depending on what you find. Do your homework though. 
 
Regarding the HD 650 - you can put a whole bucket of money into an amplifier, sure, but it won't fundamentally change the HD 650. Again, physics at work. Don't get me wrong, it's been a great headphone for the 20-some odd years it's been out, and it's a better choice than lots and lots of other headphones, but I don't think it's a better choice than a 'stat if you're after accuracy and balance. However, for less money, it's a very solid choice (okay well, it *was* less money before the price fix) - an HD 600 or 650 with a reasonable amplifier (you'd die if I told you how much that *should* cost) can easily come in well under your budget, leaving you more money for music (or whatever else you buy). I'd consider it if you're not really married to spending a grand or more at this point. Oh, and they're comfortable like nothing you can imagine (I know, I know, there's lots of headphones that are "comfortable" (like the MDR-F1, various Bose and AT models, the Denons, etc), but can you SLEEP in those headphones? That's where the HD 650 is coming from). 
 
 
Quote:
Electrostats
"Cheap" stats like SRS - 3170 or even ESP-950 (with a different amp?). Are these any good?
Most stax talk I hear about is either the SR-007 or SR-009. 
Is a used stax even possible in this budget?
 
And, not one mention of the HD 700?
 

 
 

 
Apr 29, 2012 at 4:12 AM Post #81 of 211
Thanks obobskivich. Now I think I have a much better idea of stats sound. 
 
Though to be really truthful it makes more sure that it might not be what I want. 
 
Please, correct me if I'm wrong..
Firstly, good 40% of what I listen to is rock/metal and for those I think (from what I read) the LCD2/HE-500 might be better. Even though HE-500 might be more exciting initially, some of the heavier stuff do get fatiguing with high treble energy. Which is why I was leaning towards the LCD 2.
Secondly, although not a huge priority I watch a lot of movies too. And in my current environment I can't set up a home theater system. So headphones are the way to go. I think the LCD2 bests all other headphones in that. Mainly because of the bass performance.
 
Although, come to think of it, I do appreciate resolution and balance. Maybe if I could audition the staxes..
 
Again, thanks for the detailed description! 
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Apr 29, 2012 at 4:16 AM Post #82 of 211
The HD700's are not out yet and probably won't be for sometime as the current production models are not what the engineers had in mind, so they are redesigning the whole HD700 because they are scared they will lose profit with people all buying the HD700 over the HD800, which from a marketing perspective is understandable.
 
If you want sound similar to that of the HD800 but at a fraction of the cost, the SA5k comes into mind, although they are easy to drive, they are very sensitive to the amp paired with them.
 
And no SR-007 and 009 are way out of your budget as by themselves they cost $2500 and $4500.
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 4:19 AM Post #83 of 211
 
Quote:
Thanks obobskivich. Now I think I have a much better idea of stats sound. 
 
Though to be really truthful it makes more sure that it might not be what I want. 
 
Please, correct me if I'm wrong..
Firstly, good 40% of what I listen to is rock/metal 
 

 
Grado PS1000 is all I can recommend if you want something stellar and "flagship" like if you listen to rock and metal, which the Grado's perform best with. Although with an amp to pair up with them I am not to sure, might have to ask around others that have the PS1k.
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 4:41 AM Post #84 of 211
Electrostats will do great with rock and metal - they're fast enough not to fumble with it (like I said, they're stats, they can't suck). Ultrasone will do very well too. 
 
The orthos you'd have to ask someone else. When you start talking 500-700g, I stop listening. 
 
Movies is another story altogether - I've yet to find a headphone I truly like for movies. I'd say just pick a headphone you like for music and that's comfortable, and live with the compromise for movies. Do note that any minor annoyance with a headphone when listening to music, will be amplified with movies that have slow moments - for example if they're heavy enough to bother you, you'll really feel that during slow parts of the movie. For example, the bassiest headphones I have also are the heaviest headphones I have (which isn't surprising since they're closed-back too) - they do an alright job with movies, but you key into the weight a lot sooner than if you're just jamming out. The super comfy open-backs tend to not impact as much, and it makes things sound thin. I usually just say "stuff it" and turn the subwoofers on after a while. 
 
To DefQon's points:
 
The SA5000 are (very) unfortunately discontinued. I entirely agree with the suggestion though! I don't find them all that "amp sensitive" - their impedance is stable, they're very sensitive/efficient (see this discussion (with people who disagree) continued in my posts in the SA5000 thread), they seem to play nice with everything (you either love or hate their sound from other people's experiences). Again, I would wholeheartedly suggest them if you can still find them for sale! Really, they're a stellar headphone that can be a top-tier choice if you jive with their presentation. 
 
The Grado comment made me chuckle a bit, see a recent Tyll article:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/are-objective-headphone-measurements-relevant-audiophiles-subjective-experience-page-2
 
I'm not saying Grados can't do rock, but they're not the end of the world for it. I think better exists. And, if the PS-1000 is anything like the GS-1000, they're high if they think the price is reasonable. Based entirely on non-listening points, the PS-1000 weighs a lot more than the GS-1000 (what is it with new headphones and being heavier than the Titanic?), and costs about twice as much. Is it better? I have no clue. I like the GS-1000, but it's expensive for what it is. SA5000 is equally good (but different), 'stats are faster and cleaner. There's also better (as in less expensive) options if you want more bass or a "fun" curve. Amping for the Grados I've heard has never been an issue - including the GS-1000. And that's really the most positive thing I can say for it: sure it's expensive, but it sits up there with lots of other super good sounding cans, and can plug into an iPod and do it's Zen thing. 
Quote:
Thanks obobskivich. Now I think I have a much better idea of stats sound. 
 
Though to be really truthful it makes more sure that it might not be what I want. 
 
Please, correct me if I'm wrong..
Firstly, good 40% of what I listen to is rock/metal and for those I think (from what I read) the LCD2/HE-500 might be better. Even though HE-500 might be more exciting initially, some of the heavier stuff do get fatiguing with high treble energy. Which is why I was leaning towards the LCD 2.
Secondly, although not a huge priority I watch a lot of movies too. And in my current environment I can't set up a home theater system. So headphones are the way to go. I think the LCD2 bests all other headphones in that. Mainly because of the bass performance.
 
Although, come to think of it, I do appreciate resolution and balance. Maybe if I could audition the staxes..
 
Again, thanks for the detailed description! 
smile.gif

 

 
 

 
Apr 29, 2012 at 4:51 AM Post #85 of 211
All I can say is that I'm loving the HE-500 Lyr/Bifrost set up, natural sound that's just ever so slightly colored to be even more pleasant IMO.
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 9:25 AM Post #86 of 211
 
Quote:
 
 
To DefQon's points:
 
The SA5000 are (very) unfortunately discontinued. I entirely agree with the suggestion though! I don't find them all that "amp sensitive" - their impedance is stable, they're very sensitive/efficient (see this discussion (with people who disagree) continued in my posts in the SA5000 thread), they seem to play nice with everything (you either love or hate their sound from other people's experiences). Again, I would wholeheartedly suggest them if you can still find them for sale! Really, they're a stellar headphone that can be a top-tier choice if you jive with their presentation. 
 
 
 

 
Never knew they were discontinued, which is as you mentioned "unfortunately". They do sound very fast and "live" with being a dynamic based can, although it's somewhat hard to describe what they sound like because they have traits from multiple good headphones that comes to mind, but due to its good separation and airy signature, it resembles a somewhat close signature to that of the HD800, not on par with it in terms of clarity and detail, but the SA5k sounds very good. 
 
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 9:42 AM Post #87 of 211
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac336 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
All I can say is the HE-500 is a very very good option that sounds great with every genre

 
I thought it sounded good with Chinese café music.
 
 
Quote:
I consider the T1 / LCD2 etc to be in league with the hd800, mind you I haven't heard any of these high end cans.  Just from what I read, I don't see what puts the hd800 as being $500 above the others, just that it's different.

 
Wait... the HD800 is $500 more?  Lol... I never look at prices.  Honestly with that price difference it has nothing on the T1, nothing.
 
The LCD-2 is the right option for those looking for a more magical headphone.
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Kiteki, u are still enamored with the T5p...??? 
confused_face.gif
    just teasing.
 

 
Yes, hahahaha
 
 
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 9:44 AM Post #88 of 211
 
Quote:
close signature to that of the HD800, not on par with it in terms of clarity and detail, but the SA5k sounds very good. 

 
The SA-5k exceeds the HD800 in detail.
 
That's what happens, when you make diaphragms out of crushed glass.
 
 
Apr 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM Post #89 of 211
HD650+La Figaro 339 = 1100$
You buy 35/40 music CDs with the rest or a Sonos system!
 

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