[mark_h]

Some very interesting articles discussing the cable debate and DBT, worth a read for both your wallet and perhaps even your sanity?

The Audio Critic

Edit: Forgot to put link in!

 

[Champ04]

Unfortunately, just as biased as the other side of the debate.

There are many debatable points but probably not even close to being worth the effort. But the closing paragraph in issue 16 was most telling to me. And funny too.
Anyone who is trying to debunc someone aught not come right out and admit that the reason for their effort is nothing more than irritation of the other side.
IMO!!!!!

 

[powertoold]

Of course it's biased, but it tries to use reason rather than vague words like "musical" or "PRAT" or "holographic", lol.

 

[JadeEast]

*

 

[Champ04]

LOL!

JadeEast's "non" post cracks me up. Thats right about exactly how I feel. Reason for editing?......... "never mind".
I'd do it too but then I'd only be copying. haha.

 

[mark_h]

I have just finished reading them all, they are the other side of the argument and resolutely single minded, but very, very funny!

 

[b0dhi]

I trust professional sceptics about as much as I trust door to door salesmen.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Champ04 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unfortunately, just as biased as the other side of the debate. There are many debatable points but probably not even close to being worth the effort. But the closing paragraph in issue 16 was most telling to me. And funny too. Anyone who is trying to debunc someone aught not come right out and admit that the reason for their effort is nothing more than irritation of the other side. IMO!!!!!

Issue 16 ends with a review of an Oscar Peterson album. You have an issue with this

 

[powertoold]

I don't understand the distrust for this magazine.

I only read portions of issue 16, and there are three points that coincide with my beliefs:

1) Cables matter - don't use expensive ones, just use the shortest possible connection
2) People who compare equipment without closely matching volume levels shouldn't be trusted with their opinions
3) With blind testing, people (including myself) will hear nonexistent differences between the same components because they are paying attention to different aspects

These three points alone are worth doubting everything audio related out there.

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Champ04 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are many debatable points but probably not even close to being worth the effort. But the closing paragraph in issue 16 was most telling to me. And funny too. Anyone who is trying to debunc someone aught not come right out and admit that the reason for their effort is nothing more than irritation of the other side. IMO!!!!!

Since the discussion topic of this thread is The Audio Critic, it would be helpful if you'd make the effort and raise some of those debatable points. BTW, I tried to find the issue 16 closing paragraph you referenced, but couldn't.

Also, I don't see any reason to invalidate the man's opinions just because he openly admits he is irritated with "the other side." You have to ask why is he irritated with the other side. And that leads to reading/discussing his viewpoints and assessing whether they are debatable.

 

[powertoold]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjisme /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since the discussion topic of this thread is The Audio Critic, it would be helpful if you'd make the effort and raise some of those debatable points. BTW, I tried to find the issue 16 closing paragraph you referenced, but couldn't. Also, I don't see any reason to invalidate the man's opinions just because he openly admits he is irritated with "the other side." You have to ask why is he irritated with the other side. And that leads to reading/discussing his viewpoints and assessing whether they are debatable.

Couldn't have said it better!

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some very interesting articles discussing the cable debate and DBT, worth a read for both your wallet and perhaps even your sanity? The Audio Critic Edit: Forgot to put link in!

Many thanks for that link. I read, well skimmed, all the back issues, fascinating and thought-provoking stuff. Their exposure of technononsense and technological incompetence/ignorance in the mainstream audio press (mostly courtesy of Stereophile and TAS ) was eye-opening.

The most interesting article for me was Robert Adams' article on Jitter (Iss 21) .

Cheers

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by powertoold /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1) Cables matter - don't use expensive ones, just use the shortest possible connection 2) People who compare equipment without closely matching volume levels shouldn't be trusted with their opinions 3) With blind testing, people (including myself) will hear nonexistent differences between the same components because they are paying attention to different aspects

1) The majority of what makes a cable what it is is determined at the connection, and by the material the cable is constructed of. Assuming the source is capable of driving a long length (and most are), I defy you to consistently recognize the difference between a 20 foot cable and a 3 foot cable. I can tell differences between opamps and cables, to a degree, but it is impossible for me to discern between lengths of cable. I use as short as possible because I build them, and because I am super cheap.

2) Fair enough. Volume matching is extremely important in a fair comparison.

3) If that's true, you are trying too hard to hear a difference. Seriously, if the goal is to become human testing machines, I can see the appeal in that sort of discernment, but my money only goes towards noticeable differences. If I have to focus to the point of misidentification, it is not an upgrade. I'd rather say different things sound identical and be a lousy audiophile than say the same thing sounds different and be a fool.

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd rather say diffeent things sound identical and be a lousy audiophile than say the same thing sounds different and be a fool.

Or say that different things that sound the same sound different...

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjisme /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or say that different things that sound the same sound different...

Odds are good that they do not actually sound the same, and calibrated equipment could reliably tell the difference, but I am not such equipment. Some people may be, but it is my experience that there are far more who simply pretend to be.