[sluker]

Nothing wrong with my M-stage it sounds great with many other headphones. It's just not a good match for the LCD-2..
Take a look at the LCD-2 amp thread and I am one amongst many people who observed this. 
I agree that the LCD-2 deserves better source and amp than ODAC and O2, but for those who can not afford it this is a great stop gap while they save up.
 
For the record my go to amp for LCD-2's is the Pioneer SX1250 (restored) or the LF339 with TS 5998's when I want the tube sound. However, the ODAC+O2 combo gets 80% of the way there.
Quote:

Not sure what was wrong with your M-Stage but it outputs 8Vrms to the O2's 6Vrms.  And the Matrix is a Lehmann clone so I think its fair to say you prefer the O2 sound signature but to say the M-Stage isn't usable is off.  Now that said, personally I think buying a $1000 headphone for a source and amp that are significantly less is silly.

 

[Vinc]

Quote:

Not sure what was wrong with your M-Stage but it outputs 8Vrms to the O2's 6Vrms.  And the Matrix is a Lehmann clone so I think its fair to say you prefer the O2 sound signature but to say the M-Stage isn't usable is off.  Now that said, personally I think buying a $1000 headphone for a source and amp that are significantly less is silly.

No, it's not silly. You'll have the better result buying a 1000$ heaphones with 350$ amp and 350$ DAC than buying 600$ heaphones, 600$ amp, 600$ DAC. The source makes the tiniest difference IMO, and even the amp is not that big of a deal in headphones, as long as you can drive it properly. Not to mention that if one plans to upgrade, it's better trying to have one thing that you won't upgrade for a BIG while than having each component that you will upgrade soon. I don't believe that putting 1000$ more in amp/source would make a difference as big as 1000$ more in headphones, but that's just me.
An headphone amp does not alterate the sound as much as it would in a speaker set up.

 

[Kojaku]

OH but $285 for a prebuilt ODAC combo...HMHMHM....
 
Kojaku

 

[sluker]

Spend extra and get them separate, that way you can stay portable and mix and match. 
uote:

OH but $285 for a prebuilt ODAC combo...HMHMHM....
 
Kojaku

 

[Solude]

Sorry gents but I'm from a time where if you didn't have $1000 sources and amps, the Senn 600 was wasted on you.  And that's not changed.

 

[Kojaku]

Quote:

Spend extra and get them separate, that way you can stay portable and mix and match. 
uote:

Already got an E17 that runs completely portably . Not in nearly the same class, but I'm not confined to plugs
 
Kojaku

 

[donlin]

Sorry gents but I'm from a time where if you didn't have $1000 sources and amps, the Senn 600 was wasted on you.  And that's not changed.

I have to agree with your position on the importance of the source and upstream electronics. I guess that's the "old school" approach to system building.

 

[gonkulator]

I'm not sure where the area of diminishing returns starts to significantly apply in headphones, maybe roughly the $1k mark, probably less depending on thwe individual, but for amps and sources, it is way less. For the golden-eared or golden-pocketed, the idea of diminishing returns doesn't really apply. I'm glad I'm neither.
 
Back in the day (70's), you chose the best speakers you could afford, then a decent turntable, and used whatever budget was left to find whatever preamp, amp, etc., was required to drive the speakers.

 

[donlin]

I'm not sure where the area of diminishing returns starts to significantly apply in headphones, maybe roughly the $1k mark, probably less depending on thwe individual, but for amps and sources, it is way less. For the golden-eared or golden-pocketed, the idea of diminishing returns doesn't really apply. I'm glad I'm neither.

Back in the day (70's), you chose the best speakers you could afford, then a decent turntable, and used whatever budget was left to find whatever preamp, amp, etc., was required to drive the speakers.

Until Linn came along. With headphones, the amp may take on less importance because high power isn't required. However, the source is critical because headphones have such high resolution and low level details are not swamped by room interaction.

 

[MomijiTMO]

I'm on a DAC hunt. Sources matter but I don't think there is a right order in buying things (ie DACs before amp).

 

[redcat2]

Quote:

I'm on a DAC hunt. Sources matter but I don't think there is a right order in buying things (ie DACs before amp).

Suggestion for you to look at this Dac or the family of Dac's that they do. http://www.head-fi.org/t/310441/mhdt-havana-dac

 

[silversurfer616]

Quote:

No, it's not silly. You'll have the better result buying a 1000$ heaphones with 350$ amp and 350$ DAC than buying 600$ heaphones, 600$ amp, 600$ DAC. The source makes the tiniest difference IMO, and even the amp is not that big of a deal in headphones, as long as you can drive it properly. Not to mention that if one plans to upgrade, it's better trying to have one thing that you won't upgrade for a BIG while than having each component that you will upgrade soon. I don't believe that putting 1000$ more in amp/source would make a difference as big as 1000$ more in headphones, but that's just me.
An headphone amp does not alterate the sound as much as it would in a speaker set up.

I think once you have a very good headphone,you will realize that the source is most important.
When I am away, I run my LCD2 through the Fiio E17 and compared to my home setup.....I just want to stay at home,all the time!

 

[MomijiTMO]

Suggestion for you to look at this Dac or the family of Dac's that they do. http://www.head-fi.org/t/310441/mhdt-havana-dac

I want a R2R DAC and I'm leaning towards the Metrum Octave.

 

[sluker]

Source is #1.
That starts with the quality of your files. Even a $10k DAC is not going to reveal anything from  192 MP3. The difference between the ODAC and the other contenders I have heard under $1k is slight. The only reason I prefer my Harmon Kardon 990's DAC is because it is slightly warmer and more musical, same thing for the DAC in the HM-603. While the CLAS DAC gives superior soundstage and instrument separation. 
The only other high end DAC I have experience with was inside a $10,000 CD player, while it was superior to anything else I have heard, it was not worth a $9,000 jump in price to my ears. I am however on the lookout for a new DAC in the $1,000 range and will be looking forward to the new shiit reference model.
 
I agree that both headphones and speakers are where your investment $'s should go, after that it should be source and then the amp. Pick your poison and then try to get the most out of it. 
 
Amps are last because they do not always make a difference. As an example, my magnum headphones sound as amazing out of a HM-603 with FLAC files, as they do out of the CLAS driven by a restored Sansui AU-717. But the sansa clip zip with FLAC files gets them 90% there.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Sorry gents but I'm from a time where if you didn't have $1000 sources and amps, the Senn 600 was wasted on you.  And that's not changed.

 
Quote:

I have to agree with your position on the importance of the source and upstream electronics. I guess that's the "old school" approach to system building.

 
Yeah old school thinking!