[Soundbuff]

The other day I called ARM Systems to inquire about the quiet PC systems they build. I spoke with one of the owners named Steve, who freely and generously gave me his advice (and over 1.5 hours of his time) for building a quiet PC system.

Here is what we came up with for a killer PC primarily meant for audio use:

ARM Stealth Ultraquiet MT Case w/RamAIR Duct (2 x 120 mm fans)
Stealth Level 4 Ultra Quiet Cooling and Noise Reduction Package
(Case installed with copper heatsinks, Ultra Quiet fans, Accoustipack Foam)
300W ARM Stealth Ultraquiet Power Supply (Modified Zalman PSU)
ASUS A8V Deluxe AMD 64 Socket 939 Motherboard (with "Cool & Quiet")
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (Socket 939)
512 MB DDR400 SDRAM
ATI Radeon 9550 Video Card
250 GB Hitachi Hard Drive
Sony 16X CD/DVD Reader
Sony 8X Dual Layer DVD/CD Writer

I'm pretty sure I'll be ordering soon because this system looks and feels like the right choice. I do have a question for all of you though: if I opted for a regular (single layer) Sony CD/DVD writer, it would reduce the cost of the system over $100 because the dual layer DVD writers are kind of expensive ($225).

Is it worth it to get a dual layer DVD writer, or is it not really needed? Would it be better to wait for prices on them to come down and maybe get one later? How useful is dual layer DVD writing anyway? Are the dual layer DVD's expensive? Is it better to skip it?

Any other thoughts on the system before I place the order?

Thanks,
Soundbuff

By the way, I was very impressed with ARM's attentive customer service and HIGHLY recommend them to anyone looking for a quality built PC designed with silence in mind.

 

[skitlets]

Try an NEC 16x dual layer for <70 at Newegg. Two birds, one stone, save lots of cash. Also, the video card is a bit dated, but that doesn't matter much if you don't intend on gaming.

 

[gsferrari]

How much for that system?

Let me give you some idea of the way I operate.

I calculate how much it would cost me to assemble a similar performing system myself.

I add in the cost of the "silent" cooling stuff on a "value" basis (how much is it worth to me)

I add $200.00 for customer service, warranty etc. and maybe a little more if they are really, genuinely nice.

If the overhead compared to my cost of assembly is around $500.00 then I will bite. If it is more than that then I will just build it myself.

 

[nanahachi]

If I were you, I would just purchase the DVD burner separately. Tell the ARM ppl you want to keep a bay open and install a drive you already have.

go to newegg.com and order the DVD drive of your choice (read some reviews there and at tomshardwareguide):
Sony Internal 16X DVD+/-RW / Double Layer Drive Black, Model DW-D22A-B2, OEM -- $66 + shipping

NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Black, Model ND-3500A BK, OEM -- $68 + shipping.

I highly recommend the NEC, I have it. It's silent, burns quickly, and is well rated, as are its predecessors. Newegg has a ton of others if neither of these appeals to you.

It seems like you are trying to save the hassle of building it yourself. While I would recommend buying the ARM case from them if you really like their silent/cooling features, I would order all the other parts elsewhere (via www.newegg.com especially) and have a local person build it for you (e.g. a kind headfier, a friend of yours, or pay a computer store to install it all for you). You will probably save a bit/a ton a money that way.

There are a lot of helpful and friendly people here, I'm sure we can be of some help if you need it.

good luck with the computer. it sounds, well...quiet.

 

[C38368]

Uhhh.. yeah. I'm looking at a 16x dual-layer Lite-On for around $80 locally.

Sort of following what gsferrari said... I think you're going to wind up paying way too much if you go with these folks (based on what I've seen in other companies in the past). Just my opinion, though.

 

[JeffS]

Quote:

it would reduce the cost of the system over $100 because the dual layer DVD writers are kind of expensive ($225).

Are they charging you $100? or $225 for the drive?

That right there will give you a feel for how much they may be overcharging you for this computer.

If they are only charging around $100 for the DL drive, then go for it, just consider it normal markup. A couple of things leap out from that config though, that you may want to consider changing.

First, it's about your video card. It's a good card if you're not doing any gaming, or at least not any games from the last few months. Doom 3 will choke that card badly. Technically it will run but you'll be dropping the detail levels down, and running at a lower resolution. Assuming games aren't an issue, you should be fine.

Second, there isn't much room in the PSU for anything you add or change in your machine. Most people will tell you that you don't need a large PSU if you're not going to overclock your system. In theory this is true but there are other factors. I'm guessing you didn't buy a car that could only go 65mph because that's what the speedlimit is in your state. It's good to have some headroom. Also depending on the temperature that the psu is running at, it's wattage will be reduced. Since this is a "silent" meanning probaly fanless psu, I'd strongly recommend getting a little extra room in there.

The other reason for upgrading your PSU is system stability. The PSU can make or break you system. If you've got a good psu with enough wattage to run, you should be fine, but not necessarily. It also has to be stable, and have enough amps to handle what you're going to throw at it. I learned this the hardway with my last computer build. High watts and low build quality = low build quality! I'm not saying anything against Zalman, I use their products, and I don't personally have experience with this PSU, I'm simply making recomendations.

On top of stability, it's good to have room to grow. You're only putting in a 250gig drive right now. I'm sure plenty of people will ask how i can say "only" in front of a drive that large, but it's easy. My first computer had 80 megs and it was HUGE for the time. Since you said this will mainly be for audio, I'm assuming you'll be storing music on this machine, and probably even editing. Down the road you'll likely want to add more storage space and if your PSU is near it's limit you'll be pressing your luck adding another drive or two.

Adding a 500gig raid cluster to my box was how I discovered that I needed a better PSU. It took me nearly a month of swapping things in and out, replacing parts, and pulling my hair out (couldn't swap that back in) to figure out what the problem was.

Lastly, what soundcard are you going to put into this? You didn't mention that in your post, unless I just missed it. If this is an audio computer I'm doubting you're going to be choosing the integrated audio of the motherboard.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post, but I hope it helps.

-Jeff

 

[Soundbuff]

The system as configured with the Sony dual layer DVD writer will cost $1,598. That does include a 3 year unlimited warranty with one year of at-home service and an additional 2 years of coverage for repairs at their site. They're only about 100 miles from me, so if anything went wrong it wouldn't be too difficult to bring it to them.

They also offer an NEC dual layer drive. With that drive, the system would only cost $1,491 (the Sony dual layer drive is expensive). Sounds like the NEC would be an easy choice...but...the NEC is only offered in black, and I was planning on getting a beige case since my monitor, printer and keyboard are all beige.

Another possibility would be to just get a Sony 16X CD/DVD reader and a Sony 52x32x52 CDRW drive with DVD reading capability. That would allow easy CD burning for the time being, and later the 16X CD/DVD reader could be replaced with a dual layer DVD writer if the right one comes along. Price with that setup would be $1,432.

Steve said that the ATI Radeon 9550 is a good "sweet spot" card that provides a lot of value for $100. On a scale of 1 to 10, he said it's about a 4 to 5 on the performance scale. I don't plan on playing games (love 'em but not enough free time) so it sounds like the card will be more than enough for me.

That's a good point about the 300W PSU possibly limiting the system's capability to grow. I'll think about that a bit more, but the system will probably not grow too far beyond what it is. I mostly will just use it for Internet browsing and playing audio files (and as a base station for storing music files to transfer to a portable MP3). I don't want it to grow too much beyond that because then the quietness would suffer. At most, I might add one more hard drive someday if the 250 GB hard drive gets full. I think the 300W PSU should be able to handle that.

Music card...that's still yet to be determined. I'm still waiting for my DAC-1 to arrive. I might use it with my computer (directly connected using the optical on the ASUS motherboard if possible) if it works well in that situation (so no need for a soundcard I assume if I do that). On the other hand, I might end up using it with my bedroom setup (between my Denon mini-system with optical out and the MPX3 I bought from CD3000 today...awesome!

) If I use the DAC-1 in my room, I'll probably get an EMU-1212m for the computer and maybe a Gilmore Lite to use with it.

So what do you think? The prices for the various configs look reasonable to me...plus the good warranty...plus the build quality looks amazing judging from the pics on the website...

 

[C38368]

I think $1,600 is a rip.

I can buy all the parts to build a system at least as good (if not better in some respects; I priced in a 420W OCZ PSU and an Antec Sonata here) for just around $1,150.
Needless to say, I don't know *anyone* who does (and supports) builds that wants a 50% markup over the cost of parts, warranty or no.

Regardless of whether you buy from these ARM guys or make it a DIY, I *highly* recommend buying two HDDs. Buy a relatively small drive (I think 80GB is the best price/gig right now) to install your OS and programs that think they need to be on the same drive as the OS onto, and use the other (larger) drive purely for storage.
On DVD writers: if you have the need for a writer and don't currently have one it'd be worthwhile to buy a dual layer writer. If you already have a DVD writer, or have no immediate need for one then it's probably in your best interest to get a solid DVD/CDRW and upgrade later. As an aside, dual layer media is about $10/disc.

 

[thomaspf]

The graphics card

ATI Radeon 9550 Video Card

will likely not be fast enough for VMR9 playback of hidef 1080p content or even playing DVDs with software decode and ffdshow to resize the picture full screen.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by C38368 I think $1,600 is a rip. I can buy all the parts to build a system at least as good (if not better in some respects; I priced in a 420W OCZ PSU and an Antec Sonata here) for just around $1,150. Needless to say, I don't know *anyone* who does (and supports) builds that wants a 50% markup over the cost of parts, warranty or no.

But do you know anyone who builds silent computers?
Quote:

Regardless of whether you buy from these ARM guys or make it a DIY, I *highly* recommend buying two HDDs. Buy a relatively small drive (I think 80GB is the best price/gig right now) to install your OS and programs that think they need to be on the same drive as the OS onto, and use the other (larger) drive purely for storage.

This is likely to increase the noise of the system, perhaps by 50%, unless it allows you to buy especially quiet drives. (Like the Nidec Samsung drives that go up to 160Gb.)

 

[C38368]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSMR But do you know anyone who builds silent computers?

Wholly silent? No, but I can make one damn close and still do it for under $1600.

Quote:

This is likely to increase the noise of the system, perhaps by 50%, unless it allows you to buy especially quiet drives. (Like the Nidec Samsung drives that go up to 160Gb.)

Yes, it will increase noise. Doubful by 50%, and certainly not if you don't have both drives spinning at once.
But regardless, it's a helluvalot better than having your drive crash and losing all your unassociated data.

 

[flecom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundbuff dual layer DVD writers are kind of expensive ($225).

you can go buy one at compusa for under $100 FYI

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by C38368 Wholly silent? No, but I can make one damn close and still do it for under $1600.

Then you should advertise your services.

 

[flecom]

actually i could easily make a completely silent PC, with no fans at all... solid state hard disk etc... but it wouldent be that powerful... ~1ghz max you can run without a fan without going nuts

and a flash hd is expensive and slow too... ok maybe no fans but still an hd? ooo a laptop HD those are pretty quiet

 

[gsferrari]

Laptop HDD's are quite noisy too. However wrap a laptop HDD in aluminum film and then wrap the whole thing in a high density foam - reduces noise dramatically. You can also use sheets of foam to line the insides of your case.