[GOKYO]

Ah but have you heard the LCD-4 through something ludicrously powerful? The whole Utopia/Abyss/LCD-4 shootout business becomes considerably more straightforward when you have a Wells Audio amp or similar to plug them into... at least that's what I found.

so true! driving my lcd 4 with a 65 watt VAC 70/70 speaker amp(it has 8- 300b output tubes).Amazing sound .

 

[nickosiris]

Yes 65W is probably just about enough!

 

[F208Frank]

Can someone explain how it is OK to drive headphones straight out of the DAVE with no amp? I always thought DAVE was only just a DAC?

Revisiting this made me curious about the Utopia/Dave combo.

Would the Utopia sound good on the DAC3/HPA4 Combo from Benchmark?

 

[TheAttorney]

Can someone explain how it is OK to drive headphones straight out of the DAVE with no amp? I always thought DAVE was only just a DAC?

DAVE does have a very simple and transparent amp section, as well as volume control and headphone output, so it (and its smaller brother TT2) can be used as both fixed output DAC, or as integrated DAC/amp. Although some say that a good quality external amp is still preferable with the lowest efficiency headphones, DAVE will have no trouble at all in driving Utopia, or my preferred HEK SE or Meze Empyreans.

A consideration when going the DAVE/TT2 route is that it is almost obligatory to, sooner or later, upgrade it with the M-Scaler upsampler. At which point, it would also be worth comparing it to the DCS Bartok.

 

[F208Frank]

What exactly does a M scaler upsampler do?

It seems that within the Chord crowd, dropping near 15K-18K on just the DAC/AMP is "common."

It amazes me because I already feel like dropping 5K on DAC/AMP is already quite expensive considering that most TOTL cans cost around 4-6K.

Is the DAVE for example that much better than say a DAC 3 from Benchmark? I love Benchmark products as they are a no nonsense company but seeing so many people willing to buy the Dave despite its price makes me scratch my head. A DAC can't be that much better can it...

I've always looked at Chord products from a view point of "land of super diminishing returns" but my experience admittedly with their products is limited. All I had from them was a chord mojo prior.

 

[Whazzzup]

Interesting. What improvements are you finding with the GSX over straight out of your TT?

I found a bit more bloom, especially when I upgraded my interconnects to fire. Course my server made the most improvement to tt. I’m married to my gsx mk2 and tt and my server. Haven’t tried mscaler because of the server.

 

[TheAttorney]

What exactly does a M scaler upsampler do?

...It amazes me because I already feel like dropping 5K on DAC/AMP is already quite expensive considering that most TOTL cans cost around 4-6K.

Is the DAVE for example that much better than say a DAC 3 from Benchmark? I love Benchmark products as they are a no nonsense company but seeing so many people willing to buy the Dave despite its price makes me scratch my head. A DAC can't be that much better can it...
.

If 5K is your prefered limit, then a TT2 will more closely fit that brief and will have a more powerful amp section (than DAVE) that should be more suitable for the lower efficiency headphones in this thread. But it won't overall sound as good as DAVE (from many others comments - I haven't directly compared the two).

The M-scaler, in the simplest sense, just upscales the source PCM file. You can also upscale in s/w on your server, which many music apps do, but the notable one for SQ is HQP, but that puts a significant load on the server.
In a more detailed sense, there's a lot more to it than just upscaling and I don't have the technical knowledge nor patience to try to explain it all. The bottom line is that the M-scaler does put DAVE or TT2 (and to some extent, other models) into the next higher league of SQ.

Somewhat confusingly, the improvement can be quite subtle until you latch onto it, then it can become profound. It also depends on other factors, such as the quality of the BNC cables. So more than ever, an audition is essential. Other people's subjective opinions aren't going to help much here. Particularly, as some find DAVE's sound a bit too forward - not as euphonically romantic as some rivals.

Personally, I'm dissapointed that the m-scaler FPGA technology aparently can't be built inside DAVE - because I originally chose DAVE primarily because it was a single box DAC/Amp solution, but that's life.

The bottom line is that there's no easy answer to these kinds of DAC questions. So probably best to stick to your price limit because, however much you pay, there will always be something better and more expensive to tempt you.

 

[F208Frank]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Appreciate you.

 

[Thenewguy007]

Personally, I'm dissapointed that the m-scaler FPGA technology aparently can't be built inside DAVE - because I originally chose DAVE primarily because it was a single box DAC/Amp solution, but that's life.

No such thing as can't.
A custom builder can probably make a single custom case to fit the Dave internals & the M-Scaler internals with a aluminum plate separating them & connected via short BNC cables.


Those custom metal work is very expensive.

 

[Solan]

Thank you for a nice review. Not making anything easier for a guy who is planning on buying just 1 single flagship, and call it quits. It sounds like I'd love all three! But since this was written four years ago, you probably have had time to reflect and find a groove for one since then. What are your 4-year matured impressions?

And yes: absolutely agree on the balanced. Its real use is simply for when you have very long cables and have to compensate for the electrical resistance in the cable by "pushing" at one end while "pulling" at the other. Most of us don't play with such silly cable lengths. Silly unless we're professional mixers at a stadium concert, that is.

 

[bigfatpaulie]

Thank you for a nice review. Not making anything easier for a guy who is planning on buying just 1 single flagship, and call it quits. It sounds like I'd love all three! But since this was written four years ago, you probably have had time to reflect and find a groove for one since then. What are your 4-year matured impressions?

And yes: absolutely agree on the balanced. Its real use is simply for when you have very long cables and have to compensate for the electrical resistance in the cable by "pushing" at one end while "pulling" at the other. Most of us don't play with such silly cable lengths. Silly unless we're professional mixers at a stadium concert, that is.

My 4 year impression is that the HD6X0 and HD800's are still pretty much the best headphones money can buy, so long as you have the right stuff behind them. These other really expensive headphones come and go but my HD's are forever. At least, for me. I also think that everyone is different so what is good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander. It's a very personal thing that is very easily tainted by what others think.

My best audio advice to anyone is to not read other people's opinions and listen for yourself.

In my experience, despite what people say or write, the biggest reason they aren't satisfied with their audio gear has little to do with the gear itself and almost everything to do with thinking there is something so much better out there. It's the music that counts.

 

[Solan]

My 4 year impression is that the HD6X0 and HD800's are still pretty much the best headphones money can buy, so long as you have the right stuff behind them.

In my experience, despite what people say or write, the biggest reason they aren't satisfied with their audio gear has little to do with the gear itself and almost everything to do with thinking there is something so much better out there. It's the music that counts.

Thank you. I will be auditioning some headphones when I can just travel a bit more, and I am looking for the best, not necessarily priciest. I do already have headphones I enjoy a lot: Denon 5000's (markl mod), Grado RS1, and Roxanne iems with fat silver cables people keep asking me about. But I hear the potential for being that little bit extra immersed in the music. But you're right, and one can almost think oneself unhappy despite very good equipment on the ears. I guess the same goes for amps and DACs. Which amp/DAC have you found worked best for you?

 

[bigfatpaulie]

Thank you. I will be auditioning some headphones when I can just travel a bit more, and I am looking for the best, not necessarily priciest. I do already have headphones I enjoy a lot: Denon 5000's (markl mod), Grado RS1, and Roxanne iems with fat silver cables people keep asking me about. But I hear the potential for being that little bit extra immersed in the music. But you're right, and one can almost think oneself unhappy despite very good equipment on the ears. I guess the same goes for amps and DACs. Which amp/DAC have you found worked best for you?

For me, with the HD's the Stellairs is the best amp I've heard and the DAVE is the best DAC I've heard. That's never changed.