Testing the claim: "I can hear differences between lossless formats."
Jan 28, 2015 at 6:41 PM Post #181 of 721
Yes ! I do have the files on the computer. I used acrok to rip the bluray audio, and audacity to convert the files. You can do this too. I can also write a tutorial on how to rip high resolution music of higher than cd quality from any bluray if you need. But it will be hell lot of time consuming

 
If I need to rip Blu-ray audio in the future, I may consult with you, but you don't need to worry about it for now.
 
Alright, the first step of investigating this phenomenon is you taking an ABX test and posting your results here. Have you done one before? There are links to tutorials in various posts in this thread, but I will be happy to give you more detailed instructions if you can't do it on your own.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 6:52 PM Post #182 of 721
Lol ABX audio is .99$ on android...jeez ! I will report back later when I have my fx750. Needs some high res to compare and play high res :D. In the mean time I will need to find the better source. Like I said, higher resolution audio, to me is just like high definition tv. It allows more pixel, that mean your source need to be recorded in those more pixels. It is meaningless to play flute or drum 16/44.1 vs 24/96 recording...because there is only one instrument. I will look for the most complicated song track which has 24/96 recording on a blu Ray with many many different instruments, notes, and etc played.

There is no point trying to test the differences between a year 2000 movie on a 4k tv now...is there ? The same as high resolution music. Most of the recording we have now only stop at so many things playing and composed in a track. I need something with even more things being composed. Unless you can point me to one of those files. Otherwise I will try to find it
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 6:55 PM Post #183 of 721
Lol ABX audio is .99$ on android...jeez ! I will report back later when I have my fx750. Needs some high res to compare and play high res
biggrin.gif
. In the mean time I will need to find the better source

 
You can use free programs for it. No need to pay anything.
 
Just so you know, most headphones are capable of playing all the frequencies we can hear. It just so happens that some headphones with extended frequency response are better able to handle treble frequencies, but it's not a rule.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 9:47 PM Post #184 of 721
[quoted from another thread]
 
This is it, I agree. There is not a night and day difference, it is the fuller feeling you may be able to tell if you listen to both back and forth continuously. Blind test as a random test can't tell the diffence. That doesn't mean it is not there, it is just that your brain is confused on what it is perceiving. Try it with different perfumes or fragrances. I can let you blind test two totally different perfumes and smell very much a like, and you won't be able to tell the difference after 2-3 times. Unless you will do this a couple times a day for a few days, and while not being blinded, your brain will slowly differentiates it. But again, after you recognized it, and let your brain forget about it for a few months, I can blind test you again, and you won't be able to tell. It is that subtle, but it is there.

 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test
 
ABX tests are not totally blind. A and B are known. You just decide whether X is A or B.
 
In other words, it involves the same methodology through which you are perceiving these differences.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 10:07 PM Post #185 of 721
If 99 cents is too much money... well, I guess we all have better things to do.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 10:13 PM Post #187 of 721
Jan 28, 2015 at 10:25 PM Post #188 of 721
Lol ABX audio is .99$ on android...jeez ! I will report back later when I have my fx750. Needs some high res to compare and play high res
biggrin.gif
. In the mean time I will need to find the better source. Like I said, higher resolution audio, to me is just like high definition tv. It allows more pixel, that mean your source need to be recorded in those more pixels. It is meaningless to play flute or drum 16/44.1 vs 24/96 recording...because there is only one instrument. I will look for the most complicated song track which has 24/96 recording on a blu Ray with many many different instruments, notes, and etc played.

There is no point trying to test the differences between a year 2000 movie on a 4k tv now...is there ? The same as high resolution music. Most of the recording we have now only stop at so many things playing and composed in a track. I need something with even more things being composed. Unless you can point me to one of those files. Otherwise I will try to find it

 
You realized that all those soundwaves add together to form the sum-waveform that's hitting the mic? Regardless, plenty of music with umpteen instruments playing at once has been recorded successfully and beautifully at 16/44.1. Your movie analogy is faulty: you are assuming that just because we haven't hit the limit of human perception for one sense means that we haven't hit the limit on the other sense.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 10:36 PM Post #189 of 721
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:27 PM Post #190 of 721
You realized that all those soundwaves add together to form the sum-waveform that's hitting the mic? Regardless, plenty of music with umpteen instruments playing at once has been recorded successfully and beautifully at 16/44.1. Your movie analogy is faulty: you are assuming that just because we haven't hit the limit of human perception for one sense means that we haven't hit the limit on the other sense.


Do you know of any track of any kinds which has the most musical instrument and effects recorded up until this date ? I would like to know to try and experience it myself. I was just assuming, and It could be that I was wrong and at fault. I would appreciate any recommendations of any tracks with the record high numbers of instruments and effect composed. Thanks.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:32 PM Post #191 of 721
Do you know of any track of any kinds which has the most musical instrument and effects recorded up until this date ? I would like to know to try and experience it myself. I was just assuming, and It could be that I was wrong and at fault. I would appreciate any recommendations of any tracks with the record high numbers of instruments and effect composed. Thanks.

 
What does the number of instruments and special effects in the music have to do with things like sample rate and bit depth?
 
If anything, it's related to your headphones' capacity for imaging, instrument separation, and so on.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:39 PM Post #192 of 721
What does the number of instruments and special effects in the music have to do with things like sample rate and bit depth?

If anything, it's related to your headphones' capacity for imaging, instrument separation, and so on.


Nothing much, as I am only assuming. I watched a clip from some one who recorded a piano under different bits and sampling rate. He explained something about quantified affect. It happens when the sample rate and bits just gives too much space...it became empty space, and the computer decipher it to be just noises. It lead me to believe in those empty spaces, something could fit, and the noises from these quantified affect will not present. The result I collected so far = that piano recorded vs some composed song at the same quality, the song just perform better where as in the piano solo there will be noises.

Again, it was what I collected to my own, I know you don't like it, but since you asked. I would love to have a song of those many many instruments and effects composed together. I would love to test it out and see
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:45 PM Post #193 of 721
Nothing much, as I am only assuming. I watched a clip from some one who recorded a piano under different bits and sampling rate. He explained something about quantified affect. It happens when the sample rate and bits just gives too much space...it became empty space, and the computer decipher it to be just noises. It lead me to believe in those empty spaces, something could fit, and the noises from these quantified affect will not present. The result I collected so far = that piano recorded vs some composed song at the same quality, the song just perform better where as in the piano solo there will be noises.

Again, it was what I collected to my own, I know you don't like it, but since you asked. I would love to have a song of those many many instruments and effects composed together. I would love to test it out and see

 
As I have told you prior, there are benefits to recording audio in 24-bit or higher, but only due to higher demands of computer processing. This is not relevant to audio playback.
 
Jan 29, 2015 at 12:46 AM Post #194 of 721
Nothing much, as I am only assuming. I watched a clip from some one who recorded a piano under different bits and sampling rate. He explained something about quantified affect. It happens when the sample rate and bits just gives too much space...it became empty space, and the computer decipher it to be just noises. It lead me to believe in those empty spaces, something could fit, and the noises from these quantified affect will not present. The result I collected so far = that piano recorded vs some composed song at the same quality, the song just perform better where as in the piano solo there will be noises.

Again, it was what I collected to my own, I know you don't like it, but since you asked. I would love to have a song of those many many instruments and effects composed together. I would love to test it out and see


You're thinking of quantization error, but you've got the wrong idea. Simply put, it means 16 bit audio has a noise floor at -96 dB, -6 dB per bit. Unless you can hear this noise (which I guarantee you can't) it is not affecting your sound quality whatsoever. Here's a more in-depth explanation:
 
An analog signal like the audio we hear is a continuous sine wave, with a theoretically infinite number of points. In digital audio, we have to find a way to express those points in a file our hard drives can actually hold. How we do this is with bit depth and sampling rate. These are related to the frequency of the sound (the pitch) and the amplitude of the sound (the volume).
 
Bit depth is the vertical axis, the volume. Because, again, we're working with a finite amount of data, we have to fit the volume of the sine wave at the points we sample into one of a set number of values. This is rarely exact, so we have to round to the nearest value. The result is a sine wave that's  fuzzy, as the volume has to be raised or lowered at each sample. The fuzz results in noise, quantization error, an additional signal that's uncorrelated with the original. White noise like static. Not distortion or a reduction in detail, just static. Though, obviously, you won't hear the recording very well if it dips below the volume of the static.
 
This might sound bad but it's not. 16 bit audio allows us 65,536 discrete volume levels to choose from. The amount of rounding is tiny. It's so tiny, in fact, that the fuzz is -96 dB below the maximum digital signal. Claiming that this is affecting your sound quality is like telling someone at a rock concert to stop whispering so you can hear the music.
 
There's a couple ways this could potentially be audible, though. One is if you play a quiet file at high volume in a dead silent anechoic chamber, not exactly a situation we find ourselves in very often. The other is if the recording has sounds quiet enough to be masked by the noise floor. No recording in existence has this level of dynamic range. Even if one did, you would go deaf trying to listen to it at a volume that makes those quiet passages appreciable.
 
You're going to want to look elsewhere for audible differences.
 
Jan 29, 2015 at 4:44 AM Post #195 of 721
 
What does the number of instruments and special effects in the music have to do with things like sample rate and bit depth?

If anything, it's related to your headphones' capacity for imaging, instrument separation, and so on.


Nothing much, as I am only assuming. I watched a clip from some one who recorded a piano under different bits and sampling rate. He explained something about quantified affect. It happens when the sample rate and bits just gives too much space...it became empty space, and the computer decipher it to be just noises. It lead me to believe in those empty spaces, something could fit, and the noises from these quantified affect will not present. The result I collected so far = that piano recorded vs some composed song at the same quality, the song just perform better where as in the piano solo there will be noises.

Again, it was what I collected to my own, I know you don't like it, but since you asked. I would love to have a song of those many many instruments and effects composed together. I would love to test it out and see


take any big orchestra. but what you really need to do is go read about how sound waves work, how they add up, cancel each others and how one big wave can "carry" a lot of different sounds...
because you obviously have the wrong idea about all that.
maybe how a microphone records sound would help you get the big picture too?
 

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