[SLAFL]

The thing is, if you have the ability to switch very fast(near instantaneously), then a majority of audible differences just "pop up" and we notice them while going back and forth. I always refer to the similar phenomenon with pictures on a computer. If you can just go back and forth between 2 almost identical pics on the same screen with a click or a scroll on your mouse, doing it a few times will be enough to just see the small differences in the picture(they’re the parts that "move". And knowing the picture or audio sample is unnecessary for that effect.

We discussed possible audio differences that could escape this trick and still have some impact we could sense, like tiny stuff over a long period of time maybe having some cumulative effect like being more tiring, or high energy ultrasounds hurting us while not strictly heard. But I ’ve seen no study of such a thing for your everyday music at reasonable listening levels.
The only legitimate concern for audio is that we absolutely need both samples to be at the same loudness(so we don’t detect loudness difference), and as it works best with short audio samples, we must first know what sample to pick that will contain the most likely to be audibly different passage.

Hmm... you may still need to know what to listen for... I heard the anecdote from BASF executive at the tape cassette forum... BASF one-time invited bunch of executives to see if they can discern between playback from CD vs from Compact Cassette (as you can image CC being at the huge disadvantage)... well almost nobody could except 2 people that said they were listening for a particular distortion in the female voices that they knew would be present on Compact Cassette... Even with pictures I think there are quite a few people that can discern more colors than others (like I think females can distinguish more colors than man).

 

[bigshot]

If you're focusing on distortion instead of the music, you're listening to the wrong thing!

That said, there are tracks that compress easily, and ones that are more difficult to compress. If you're listening for compression artifacts, it makes sense to use a track that might actually have some. But when you talk about the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit, you can strain and focus on whatever you want, and you won't hear any difference at normal listening volumes. The noise floor is low enough that if you turn up the volume high enough to hear it, the music will be so loud you'll incur hearing damage. If you hear distortion between 16 and 24 bit, it's not due to the bitrate, it's due to something entirely different... most likely someone messed up when they made the sample files.

 

[castleofargh]

Hmm... you may still need to know what to listen for... I heard the anecdote from BASF executive at the tape cassette forum... BASF one-time invited bunch of executives to see if they can discern between playback from CD vs from Compact Cassette (as you can image CC being at the huge disadvantage)... well almost nobody could except 2 people that said they were listening for a particular distortion in the female voices that they knew would be present on Compact Cassette... Even with pictures I think there are quite a few people that can discern more colors than others (like I think females can distinguish more colors than man).

In general listening it sure helps to already know what type of difference there is and how it sounds. If we can train for it beforehand it’s great. What I ’m talking about is for very short samples and rapid switch where the echoic memory does the job for us. In that case, differences tend to just appear the same way we register changes that make the music the rest of the time.
It’s something to try. With the caveats previously mentioned.

 

[bigshot]

I don't know why you'd invest effort into hearing noise. Better to put that effort into discerning individual musical instruments in an arrangement and training yourself to hear past noise.

Being able to hear minute amounts of noise and distortion isn't something to be proud of. I actually feel sorry for people who can't appreciate music on records or tapes. It isn't their fault. I guess OCD can make people focus on the wrong things.

 

[gregorio]

I heard the anecdote from BASF executive at the tape cassette forum... BASF one-time invited bunch of executives to see if they can discern between playback from CD vs from Compact Cassette (as you can image CC being at the huge disadvantage)... well almost nobody could except 2 people that said they were listening for a particular distortion in the female voices that they knew would be present on Compact Cassette...

I take it you meant Digital Compact Cassette? It’s usually quite trivial to discern CD from (analogue) Cassette, unless it’s a laboratory grade cassette recording. DCC wasn’t that hard either, although considerably harder than analogue Cassette. On the other hand, I’ve known execs who couldn’t tell the difference between Hayden and Beethoven! Lol.

Your anecdote is well backed by reliable evidence/science though. In fact it’s been standard procedure for several decades to provide specific training during scientific studies of human thresholds to various audio phenomena.

If you're focusing on distortion instead of the music, you're listening to the wrong thing!

And how do you know if you’re focusing on distortion instead of the music if you can’t tell which is which? Not to mention that within bounds different people have a different sensitivity and tolerance for distortions. For example, the crackles and pops with vinyl often drive me nuts, while during the exact same listening session my audiophile host was hardly even aware of them and wasn’t bothered in the slightest.

G

 

[bigshot]

I feel sorry for people who can't listen past the surface noise on records. They are missing out on a lot of great music making. I have a friend with OCD and it is very difficult for him sometimes to focus on the thing he wants to focus on. I imagine that with enough training, one could learn to focus on the music instead of the noise.

It's also possible that focusing on noise and artifacts might reduce one's ability to focus past the noise and artifacts. Essentially, a good listener for noise may be a poor listener for music.

There's research that indicates that the inability to sort out competing sounds might be a form of hearing loss among the elderly that current methods of testing don't measure. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...o-follow-conversations-in-noisy-environments/

 

[gregorio]

I imagine that with enough training, one could learn to focus on the music instead of the noise.

Why don’t you try some and find out rather than just imagining? Training and focusing doesn’t make everything else magically disappear, it if did then we would never need the channel “solo” function in all DAWs and mixing desks! I’m more than surprised that you claim professional experience but apparently don’t know this!!

G