[thomas]

My condolances to everyone affected by this horrible incident, glad to hear that all the NY headfi-ers are alright.

I can undestand how many of you want to lay blame on various groups for this, and news broadcasts showing people celebrating certainly don't help. But this is simply not a solution, if the US wants to show the world that they are better than the terrorists, then they will do a throrough investigation and only then punish those involved.

 

[squirt]

The agonizing wait continues for a coworker of mine whos husband has 4 family members that work in the world trade center. by days end his parents who also live in new york city still have no word as to the fate of the 4 and i can't help but fear the worst may have happened to them...

my prayers for all thoughs impacted by this attack, which i imagine is all of us in some way...

 

[MooGoesTheCow]

i see no winners in death. no benefactors. there is nothing worse than killing one another. i feel repulsed that i am part of a species that abuses intelligence.

i will never be able to comprehend this. these people... thousands of them just like us, they who have lived 20, 30, 40+ years for the sake of life itself, who have spouses and friends and family and provided others with memories, only to become memories themselves...is just...i want to wake up.

we are the most flawed species on the planet. we haven't evolved. we have devolved.

WAKE ME UP *******IT!

 

[MacDEF]

And to make matters worse, Muslim churches and groups around the country have had to shut their doors and shut down their web sites because of death threats and hate mail.

You would think that after the Japanese internment camps of WWII, Americans would have learned... but no. Ignorant backwards people did this kind of thing during the Gulf War, and they're doing it now.

Here's a clue for those who desperately need one -- Muslims and Arabs in America are AMERICANS.

Sorry, I am just so angry that people are looking so hard for people to blame that they blame their neighbors just because they look different. I have Middle Eastern friends and Muslim friends who are more patriotic than any of my white Anglo friends, and have done as much for America as anyone I know, yet because they have an Arab-sounding name they're being treated like they hijacked the planes themselves.

 

[SumB]

My heart goes out to all those affected by this senseless act.

Peace.

 

[jeremymayf]

I am simply dumbfounded. I really don't know what to say--first things first--glad to hear our NYC headfiers are ok. I was pretty much tied up at school most of the day so no time to watch, but I am watching now--and my heart goes out to all. Lets take care of the survivors first--retribution will come later.

 

[kerykeion]

I'm late entering this thread, but after stumbling onto MacDEF's post I felt that I had to say it takes intellect--not emotions, fear, ignorance, or anger--to make worthy acusations. Unfortunatly, some people (incl. politicians, media, etc.) don't understand that concept and continue to fallacize (is this a word?)...making matters worse than what they should be. In fact, one could endlessly argue that hate, violence, etc. stems from misconceptions and misunderstanding between each other and with oneself.

Anyway, MacDEF.... when I read your post, watch the news, talk to others, I also find it most troubling to define the word "American". And I think that others would agree that it seems to be defined by stereotypes.

Your point is well thought of.

My condolances and prayers go to everyone--esp. those who are overwhelmed by emotions.

--kerykeion

 

[artmusic247]

I'm hurt and pissed off. I wish the worst possible death to the group who is responsible for this. I have no mercy for them or their supporters. For once I am glad that Bush is in the White House and not Gore. These acts have to stop right now and we have to do whatever it takes. Do these terrorist think that they can **** with the United States of America and get away with it? Not if I have a say.

You peole here, don't be so diplomatic on your stance. Do you really think those people responsible and the U.S. can peacefully work out some deal and possibly prevent this from happening again. ********! Wake up! This is not a movie, there is no happy ending. The reality in this situation is kill or be killed. There is no room on this planet for people like this.

 

[rickcr42]

welll I guess we know it was NOT domestic terrorists now,though any rational thinking person would know you could not find four americans that could both fly a jumbo jet and be willing to commit suicide,the money is too good.The investigation found it was four arab men

And since we are talking about the "WORLD" Trade Center , not just US citizens perished , and hats off to the NY Firefighters ,fearless-also deceased ,NY Police officers trying to assist the evac-deceased,a landmark-deceased,thousands (heard six thousand body bags ordered,wanna puke) of innocent workers and tourists-NOT SOLDIERS-deceased !!!!!!!!

Pentagon,at least I understand this target,about 800 deceased.

But how many WILL die ? How many are maimed for life?

Is almost 7,000 dead and growing enough ?

Any more talk about this is justified and the folks in the middle east are just oppressed and ignorant and it really is not thier fault-or the US is bad because we did this or that means your stupid ass should just go throw yourself into the fray.Pick up a gun a join the ****ing enemy,and enemy it is.THIS **** WILL STOP-NO MORE JUSTIFICATION

To Neruda-I go to bed ,wake up and there it is.An entire new topic.You need to get out more.Get your face out of the book or at least read both sides and find the truth in the middle.You think you,at 15 have all the answers ?

So what have you done in life man ? Where have YOU been to ? Are YOU a world traveller ? Have you even gone out and earned a living yet ?

**** NO YOU HAVE NOT !

Go join the peacecore you wanna do something,but don't sit in your house with a computer provided by mommy and daddy and spout that **** here or anywhere,not now,not ever,let it ****ing go or I will tell you what I really think



Anyone want some ?

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

how many Americans were dancing in the streets when Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed? Was that okay? is it only right when it's not us?

Yeah,could not let it go,personality defect I guess

So if I remember my history correct THEY ****ING FIRED THE FIRST SHOT

Go to Hawaii,the ships are STILL there with all hands on board.And this was WARdude,total all out unlimited war.Casualties were high on both sides and it had to stop.So the bomb was dropped,actually two.The world had never seen its like before or since (lesson learned),

BUT DO YOU THINK WE WERE DANCING OVER DEATH ?

It was a celebration of a long and bloody war coming to an end.



**sory jude,folks.My LAST button has been pushed HARD**

 

[hongda]

Well, I chatted with Neruda a little on ICQ and I don't think he's awake yet, (it's 7:00 AM over here) so I'll talk a little.

On further consideration he admits that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki comparison was wrong.

From my opinion, I think he was just trying to give a little perspective. Some things he said were trying to give different opinions. Not necessarily his own beliefs/opinons.

That said, I'll like to say I side with rickcr42. Hurt those bastards that did this, alot.

And no, I don't want some rick.

 

[eastsidemetalhd]

man i couldn't believe it when i saw the news...

nothing one can really say at this point except condolences and prayers to the families of the (countless) dead, as well as mad props to the rescue crews trying to sort things out.

 

[KR...]

Whoever did this will and must pay, we must never allow this to happen again. Read on :

BOSTON (Reuters) - Investigators in Boston found a copy of the Koran, a videotape on how to fly commercial jets and a fuel consumption calculator in a pair of bags meant for American Airlines Flight 11, which crashed into the World Trade Center on Tuesday, the Boston Globe reported on Wednesday.

The paper said the suitcases belonged to a man with an Arabic name who investigators believe was one of those who hijacked the plane and crashed it into the New York landmark.

The man boarded Flight 11 after flying into Boston's Logan International airport from Portland, Maine, but his bags missed the connection, the Globe reported.

The discovery, if verified, would be the latest bit of evidence pointing investigators toward Islamic extremists as the perpetrators of Tuesday's deadly attacks in New York and Washington, the worst in memory on U.S. soil.

Senior U.S. officials have said initial evidence points to the organization of Osama Bin Laden, the Islamic militant who has been blamed for previous attacks on U.S. facilities in the Middle East and Africa, as the author of the attacks.

Meanwhile, the Boston Herald reported on its Web Site, citing an unidentified source, that Massachusetts authorities have identified five Arab men as suspects in the attacks and have seized a rental car containing Arabic-language flight training manuals at Logan.

Two of the men were brothers whose passports were traced to the United Arab Emirates, the unidentified source told the Herald. One of the men was a trained pilot, the paper reported on its Web site on Wednesday.

The paper said investigators suspect the brothers were aboard hijacked United Airlines flight 175, one of two aircraft that crashed into New York's World Trade Center.

Flight UA 175 left from Boston en route to Los Angeles with 56 passengers on board. American Airlines flight 11 from Boston to Los Angeles crashed into the other World Trade Center tower. Another aircraft hit the Pentagon (news - web sites) and a fourth aircraft crashed in rural Pennsylvania.

At least two other suspects flew to Logan on Tuesday from Portland, Maine, where authorities believe they had traveled after recently crossing over from Canada, the Herald reported.

Authorities were informed about the rental car by a civilian who got into a fight with several Arab men as they were parking their car, the paper reported.

 

[KR...]

.S. Searches for Perpetrators, Survivors
By Alan Elsner, National Correspondent

NEW YORK/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Americans reacted with controlled fury and a burst of patriotism Wednesday, as emergency workers dug desperately for survivors in New York and intelligence agencies searched for those behind the worst attack on the nation since Pearl Harbor.

There was still no death toll from Tuesday's attacks, in which knife-wielding hijackers commandeered four planes. They flew two into New York's World Trade Center, toppling the two highest structures in the city; a third seriously damaged the Pentagon. The fourth hijacked plane crashed in Pennsylvania.

As a cloud of dust still hung over the city, rescue workers pulled a handful of people out of the wreckage of the World Trade Center Wednesday morning and reported signs of life in the rubble, including at least one person sending out calls on a cellphone.

The world's financial center resembled a desolate war zone, the streets of lower Manhattan coated in gray ash and a thick trail of brown smoke pouring into the sky from where the World Trade Center's twin towers once stood.

Some 40,000 peopled worked in the pulverized buildings and the death toll was expected to climb into the thousands.

President Bush planned to make a brief statement at 10:45 a.m. after meeting with his national security team, a White House spokesman said.

Two Boston newspapers reported that authorities in Massachusetts had identified five Arab men as suspects and had seized a rental car containing Arabic-language flight training manuals at the city's Logan International Airport, where two of the hijacked planes originated.

Investigators found a copy of the Koran, a videotape on how to fly commercial jets and a fuel consumption calculator in a pair of bags meant for American Airlines Flight 11, which crashed into the World Trade Center, the Boston Globe said.

The Boston Herald said the suspects entered the United States from Canada. Two of the men were brothers whose passports were traced to the United Arab Emirates, and one was a trained pilot.

EVIDENCE POINTS TO ISLAMIC GROUP

The discovery, if verified, would be the latest piece of evidence pointing investigators toward Islamic extremists. Senior U.S. officials have said initial evidence points to the organization of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born dissident now living in Afghanistan who is blamed for bombing two U.S. embassies in East Africa and other anti-American attacks.

U.S. agents served warrants on homes and searched businesses in south Florida, and issued alerts for two cars in connection with the attacks, local media reported.

Arizona Sen. John McCain described the national mood as one of ``controlled fury.'' Some New Yorkers flew American flags on their cars as they drove to work. Radio stations in Washington urged people to fly flags outside their windows.

The horror of Tuesday's events was still sinking in. Newspapers and television stations showed horrific images of desperate people jumping off the World Trade Center and plunging 70 or 80 stories to their death.

New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani said at least 202 firefighters were still missing and 259 uniformed service members had not been accounted for. They had apparently rushed into the first of the towers to be hit and were caught inside when it collapsed.

``When we get the final number, it will be more than we can bear,'' Giuliani said. ``The numbers will be very, very high.''

Giuliani said rescue workers were in voice contact with at least one more person trapped in the rubble. ``They are trying to rescue him and get him out,'' he said.

But the mood in the country was still jittery. U.S. Agriculture Department employees were evacuated early on Wednesday from one of the department's buildings in downtown Washington. No reason was given.

Smoke was seen rising from the roof of New York's World Financial Center near the site of Tuesday's attack, but the smoke stopped a short time later.

U.S. airlines planned to resume scheduled flights Wednesday afternoon after an unprecedented halt but bringing the commercial airline system back up to full speed was not expected any time soon.

POWELL: AN ACT OF WAR

Secretary of State Colin Powell said the attacks were an act of war and promised the United States would respond ``as if it is a war.''

Interviewed on ABC's ``Good Morning America,'' Powell said:

``The American people have a clear understanding that this is a war. That's the way they see it. You can't see it any other way, whether legally that is correct or not.''

Asked if he personally regarded the attacks that way, Powell responded, ``I do.''

``Let's not think that one single counterattack will rid the world of terrorism of the kind we saw yesterday,'' Powell said in another interview on the NBC ``Today'' program.

``This is going to take a multifaceted attack on many dimensions -- diplomatic, military, intelligence, law enforcement. All sort of things have to be done to bring this scourge under control.''

But he said the United States was not about to launch any military operation and did not yet know who was behind the attacks.

In an address to the nation Tuesday evening, the president said the United States would go after not only those behind the attacks but those nations which harbored and supported them.

Bush scheduled a meeting with congressional leaders Wednesday morning. Later he would stop by a blood drive being organized at the White House complex, part of a wider national effort to aid victims of the attacks

A Pakistani newspaper said bin Laden had denied blame. ``The terrorist act is the action of some American group. I have nothing to do with it,'' it quoted him as saying.

Western aid workers in Kabul began pulling out of the Afghan capital amid fears for their safety if the United States retaliated. The United Nations said it had begun withdrawing its 80 expatriate staff but the pullout was temporary.

Bush, in his televised address, said ``thousands of lives were suddenly ended by evil, despicable acts of terror.''

``We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them,'' Bush said, signaling that the Taliban could be targeted if Washington believed bin Laden to be responsible.

PENTAGON DEATH TOLL IN HUNDREDS

Fire Chief Edward Plaugher, in charge of fighting the fire at the Pentagon, said early Wednesday the death toll at the U.S. military headquarters could range from 100 to 800 people. He said it would be days before a precise figure was known.

The world's leading investment banks and brokerages said they were still trying to account for their New York-based employees. Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co. was the financial complex's largest tenant. Brokerage Cantor Fitzgerald had offices on four of the top 10 floors of 1 World Trade Center.

Many firms said they could not confirm if their staff at the trade center had been safely evacuated before the towers collapsed.

Stock markets stabilized and bonds fell in Europe after a global rout as investors fumbled for direction in the wake of the attacks which many feared would prompt a global recession.

Safe haven bonds and gold lost ground, returning some of the massive gains made Tuesday after the attack on a key nerve center of global finance. Oil, which had also made major gains on fears of worsening conflict in the Middle East, was steady.

The dollar was stable after large losses against major currencies Tuesday.

Europe's bourses fell sharply then steadied Wednesday, as players still reeling from the scenes of devastation tried to work out the implications for economic and political life.

Dealers predicted a day of huge volatility while benchmark indices fluctuated around end-1998 levels after first approaching lows last seen during the Russian devaluation crisis in the autumn of that year.

``Not just the United States but the world economy has been given a direct hit to the gut and we're going to reel from that for a little bit,'' said Robert Lees, secretary-general of the Pacific Basin Economic Council.

 

[rickcr42]

I hear you Hongda ,just that it was in bad taste to try and justify this action while the bodies are still burning.I am in spitting distance of the Big Apple and it is truly a great city.Those folks did not deserve that type of end.

I know and respect neruda's politics ,though as stated previously I in no way agree with them , but he would not let it go.He made his point and ruffled some feathers and then started a new thread for what end ? Just to piss some people off ?

WE don't even have a body count yet,some headfizers are still not accounted for ,families mourning , hell a nation is mourning , and this knucklhead justifies (and I know you don't dude,but you should have thought this out ) the actions of a group of death worshippers ?

Not that it matters but I have done/seen/been to a lot of places .I feel I have lived a balanced life.When I die I can pretty much say I did not miss out.In my youth I was very liberal,a hippie if you will,and protested war,wanted to feed the world,peace/love the whole ****-including hair to my ass.

But I worked full time since 15 man ,no free rides here

Next thing you know I am no longer a protester but I enlisted in the United States Armed Forces,and armed I was-light infantry.All the light means is if you could carry it you could shoot it,and some of that **** wasn't so light.My politics shifted a lttle,not drastically but seeing how many people wanted to take my life changes you a bit.

I get out and realize that I have either been working or blowing **** up for years.I needed a break ! So back into a "semi" hippie mode (around 1976 or so),grew my hair shoulder length,got me the best damn backpack I could afford ,nice bedroll, and hit the road.

Man let me tell you,you have not even begun to see this great country of ours until you have hitchhiked across it.You drive by and it is "ooh,look at that" and it is gone , forgotten.You walk this bitch and you FEEL this land.You meet the local folk,some hate your ass for being a "damn yankee" ,some because you have long hair and think you are a hippie .But you sit down and chat and you realize you have one common bond=CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ! All of a sudden you are brothers,something in common no matter what your background,race,economic position,religion or lack of,a common bond.Hell I even bounced into Mexico and Canada on foot,just because.

Once I got that out of my system I wandered back to home base,rested up for a week and reconnected with family and freinds and got a job.Spent the next coupla years nailing every single woman with a pulse I could-all shapes /sizes/colors.A real horror show.Alcohol,drugs,females-I ran hard.Had no politics,did not give a ****

Well one of these fine young things comes to me one day and informs me she was with child,**** ! I don't even LIKE HER !
So I jet ! To Vermont of all places ! To this day I have no idea what the FCK I went there for with all the places I had to choose from (shoulda been New Orleans,love that place).Anyway,I am in vermont thinking about what a ****heel I am,and how no child should grow up without a father and BAM ! Back to connecticut a month later to give being a daddy a shot.Still married 14 years later,and happily,three sons,life is sweet

And I will tell you man,you start raising a family and your politics change REAL FAST ! You become a capitalist,you become conservative,you KNOW right from wrong ,or how do you teach your little ones ?

Am I perfect ? **** NO MAN,by I try to be.Losing battle but so ?
I can only try to be the best I can for me and mine,and having seen people in every type of situation imaginable either here or in other countries ( uncle sam) I let folks be what they wanna be and do not pass judgement.

BUT SOME **** IS JUST WAY OVER THE LINE,and once that line is crossed I let fly , just me, how I am

But when I say "been there,done that" I speak from my life man,went from child to man , back to child and full loop back to man,but full grow this time !

More info than you need but hadda let folks know where I am comin " from ,this is not from any book,my life such as it is

Rick

*edit* need a damn proofreader , looked like a child spelled some of that ****.Better now

BTW-looking back I am still amazed that A) I survived and B) I found the time to learn DIY audio electronics,started blowing up projects at 14 or so

cheers