T1 and O2Mk1: Some Impressions
Apr 13, 2010 at 1:01 PM Post #16 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'd like to have some of whatever you're smoking.


Buddy, I'm here to learn and talk about headphones. What's your problem with my statement? About their sonic qualities, those are only inferences I drew from the review, I'll freely admit. I might have made a mistake regarding the relative sizes of the companies - I always thought Beyer was a big, public company based on the diversity of their products lines, but apparently they're only 300 employees. Was that my inaccuracy? How large is Stax as a company?

Fruthermore, I meant R&D in a monetary sense, which is natural - my background's in accounting. I would not be able to dicuss the technical merits of Stax's research as opposed to Beyer or Senn's.

Edit - my research on Wikiphonia notes that Stax was 35 employees in 1991. They subsequently closed in 1995 and was reformed by engineers. That makes impressed, that a such a small company, could do so well against larger companies. Again, if you think I am whack, I would like to know why.
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 2:20 PM Post #17 of 94
I think most people here know that Stax isn't a very large company, compared to AT, Senn or AKG. Grado and Jerry Harvey (JH13) also seem to be smallish companies.

If I may interject, I think that what mypasswordis was referring to is that, it's actually AT, Senn, AKG and the others who arguably were and still are playing catchup to Stax. In terms of headphone overall sound quality at specific price points.

Before the HD800 and T1 were released, the competition situation was even worse. Well, not worse from Stax's perspective, but worse from ours as consumers and everyone else's as competitors. There wasn't anything really competitive to Stax in current production, including AD2000, W5000, K70x, HD6x0, DT880-990, Denons, Ultrasone, GS1000, etc. The discontinued units are competitive, certainly, but they were discontinued. Sony in particular doesn't seem very interested in the market.

So we, as consumers, had limited selection and limited choice. Now, with the HD800 and T1, and others such as PS1000, GS1000, RS-1, D7000, Edition 8, the JH13, etc. it seems like the market is better for us. Not as good for Stax anymore.
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I haven't heard the T1. I do think the HD800 is competitive versus the O2 or other Stax.
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 2:29 PM Post #18 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If I may interject, I think that what mypasswordis was referring to is that, it's actually AT, Senn, AKG and the others who arguably were and still are playing catchup to Stax. In terms of headphone overall sound quality at specific price points.

Before the HD800 and T1 were released, the competition situation was even worse. Well, not worse from Stax's perspective, but worse from ours as consumers and everyone else's as competitors. There wasn't anything really competitive to Stax in current production, including AD2000, W5000, K70x, HD6x0, DT880-990, Denons, Ultrasone, GS1000, etc. The discontinued units are competitive, certainly, but they were discontinued. Sony in particular doesn't seem very interested in the market.

So we, as consumers, had limited selection and limited choice. Now, with the HD800 and T1, and others such as PS1000, GS1000, RS-1, D7000, Edition 8, the JH13, etc. it seems like the market is better for us. Not as good for Stax anymore.
icon10.gif



Yes, that's what I meant. I remember the days where there was a significant gap between the now mid-fi and Stax, though of course only through what I read and not what I owned. I am impressed because Stax has such good units that they remain competitive today even when the other companies seem to be taking the high-end much more seriously. That's what I meant in my original statement.
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 2:42 PM Post #19 of 94
Some consider electrostatic driver technology to be superior to anything dynamics can come up with, and other companies have long been trying out things Stax thought up long ago, like angling the drivers and trying to place the image in front, as well as playing around with an infinite baffle design with minimal, controlled backwave reflection. The stuff Stax came out with 30-40 years ago easily crushes most dynamics made today in sound quality imo, and the fact that nearly all of them are still going strong shows the incredible build quality and reliability of these units.
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 3:34 PM Post #21 of 94
^You sure are silly!
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The OP concluded: Quote:

Overall, I give the prize to the O2Mk1/Exstata over the T1/Auditor.


What do you think the result of the O2Mk1/BHSE would be versus the HD800/Anything, hurry, please help me, I'm losing, recable me quick, I'm dying here!
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Arguably, the O2Mk1 is the best headphone of all time. Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying this, I'm saying it is arguable and certainly possible.
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A few other headphones may also make this claim, with varying degrees of success. How about the HD800 or T1?
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 3:57 PM Post #22 of 94
Great review. I think you pretty much nailed the attributes of the O2 that make them so enjoyable to listen to.

I haven't heard the Beyers, but your description of them as analytical and sterile with strident highs sounds very close to my feelings about the HD800, a phone that I sold to purchase my O2's (and haven't looked back since
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).
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 4:19 PM Post #24 of 94
Apr 13, 2010 at 4:32 PM Post #25 of 94
Apr 13, 2010 at 9:59 PM Post #27 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ypoknons /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Very interesting read. Amazing how Stax can still play in the game even when the big boys come in and their big guns and R&D.


Great review!

Since some players of the headphone industry used to produce electrostatic headphones, I was wondering why they gave up this field.

Is there some cost issues with electrostatic manufacturing? I don't think so as Stax sell cheaper models, including companion amplifiers.

Someone has any thoughts about it?
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 10:19 PM Post #28 of 94
Cost basically. Dynamics cost virtually nothing to produce and there is a very low reject rate. There is also no need to have any special skills to do the assembly and you don't need a clean room to do it in. That also leaves the drive electronics which are harder then it looks to design properly.

Beyer made the ET1000 in the late 70's but dropped it in favor of the DT880 which was much, much cheaper to make. Probably beats the T1 though as it is a damn fine headphone...
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 10:53 PM Post #29 of 94
Thanks for the compliments, guys.

N3rdling, I reckon you are right about the O2 having superior imaging. I was perhaps mentally fudging imaging and soundstage together. The T1 has a wider soundstage and very precise imaging, perhaps just as precise as the O2; but because the T1 has a more spacious placement of instruments, I may have confused this with superior imaging.

I like Covenant's idea of appreciating the O2 for what it is without trying to compensate for perceived deficiencies. Better amping is always welcome, however the KGBH would require a lottery win. Now I'd like to hear the 717.

I think it's important not to take from the review that the T1 is sterile sounding in any way. It is only in comparison with the lushness of the O2 and in conjuntion with the Auditor that it had a thinner, edgier sound. Taken on its on (with the Auditor), I definitely like it a lot, but am also convinced that a good tube amp would work its magic and give a meatier, more natural sound. Skylab and others have reported their love of this phone with tubes, and another head-fier has reported 'perfect synergy' between the T1 and the DNA Sonett. I believe him and would love to hear it myself.
 
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