[RnB180]

actually ive already contacted yorker and jwfokker via pm clarifying my position on the argument.

I just chose not to involve it in the thread.

you quoted fokkers comment about amplifiers with enormous power and costing thousands of dollars to sound as good as a t amp. if you read my answer doesnt take much to link why I posted the reply I did.

 

[RnB180]

BTW, I thought this post's intent was to get a heated debate/argument going from both sides. If anyone feels that it gets too hot in here, theres another pro/supportive sonic t amp thread a few posts down thats perfect for just gobs of sonic t amp info.

this psot however started off as a comparison and debate between supporters and non-supporters. at least thats how I understood it as.

 

[rickcr42]

First of all some administrative duties from "moderator" rickcr42:

Keep the discussion civil and on topic or I will lock the thread.This will be said once and only once .I let this go long enough hoping for self moderation but obviously not happening in my lifetime so you are all on notice to keep it on the high ground

OK."Member" rickcr42 post.

Use a low power amp with inefficient speakers and you are looking for trouble unless you listen entirely in the nearfield and even there the lack of headroom can be problematic in some cases.
Another variable having an effect on the amp/speaker interface exclusive of efficiency is the crossover network.Many don't take this into account but trust me on this,some complex crossovers not only can but do have an effect on the sound of an amp and in extreme cases on the very stability of the amp.
It is not unknown for a highly reactive passive crossover to send some amp designs into oscillation and even take out the entire output stage.

The particulars of the T-amp are an unknown to me because I have absolutely zero interest in the technology so my statement is more of the general "amp/speaker" variety and not "T-AMp/Speaker" type.

common sense will tell you that if you play loud then build a system accordingly and clipping BTW is NOT the same as a loudspeaker scraping against the voice coil.

one is electrical in nature and is the result of trying to produce more power than the amp is capable of

the other is mechanical in nature and is the attempt to make the cone travel further than it is able

But what clipping CAN do is overheat the voice coil of any tweeters because they attempt to reproduce ultrasonic sounds (the clipping is a square wave) which being in a zone not intended by the designer is also an unprotected area and will melt the VC wires requiring a tweeter replacement.

Loud music peaks even at triple a speaker power handling is usually fine but ultrasonic noise is not and that is what a clipping amp is putting out.

assemble your systems with some common sense and with levels in mind and you need never face the problem.

BTW-other than my rear channel amp ALL my amplifiers are 10 Watts or less SE class-A so lowish power can work if sprinkled with some common sense and limits

 

[JWFokker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 Use a low power amp with inefficient speakers and you are looking for trouble unless you listen entirely in the nearfield and even there the lack of headroom can be problematic in some cases.

This is exactly the point. Use the T-Amp for what it's intended for and it will excel. No one said the T-Amp was for driving 10" drivers down to 20hz. It's for nearfield listening or systems with efficient speakers, nothing more. Volume levels are entirely dependent upon the efficiency of the driver for ANY amp. Your amp has a fixed limit to how much power it puts out and what the speaker does with it will determine how it sounds and more importantly, how loud it gets. If you use 84db speakers, no, the T-Amp will not be particularly loud even at it's limits. But use 93db speakers (not expensive or uncommon) and it will be more than loud enough to permanently damage your hearing.

Most of the arguement against the T-Amp centers around unrealistic uses for it and refusal to accept the fact that the T-Amp produces clarity and a soundstage on par with far more expensive amps. No one said the T-Amp is the be all end all of amplifiers. It won't replace your monoblock sub amp. It won't replace your home theater receiver. But with reasonably efficient speakers it can replace your stereo receiver. The clarity and soundstage are exceptional. The T-Amp is strictly for two channel use, so I don't even know why home theater receivers are being mentioned.

If you want a two channel amplifier and have efficient speakers, get the T-Amp. But buy a separate amp for your sub.

 

[mono]

Old thread but it's always nice to get more opinions.

I've modded a T-amp to run off a 13.1V, ~ 1.5 amp linear supply with misc other common mods. Driving junk 87dB speakers in the garage (formerly tested in a carpeted, curtained, furnished room) it's plenty loud enough for normal listening levels. It's ~10W good watts are not enough for the brief periods one might want very loud music but it's entirely loud enough for listening levels you'd use continuously in a moderate-sized room. That makes it a steal for the price and one would typically find worse sound quality if they only focused on wattage alone.

I"m not suggesting this is all an audio lover could ever want for their primary amp in a normal (home?) room. Rather, what it can do it does very well.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mono I've modded a T-amp to run off a 13.1V, ~ 1.5 amp linear supply

From what I understand, you shouldnt need to mod the T-amp to achieve this... it will run fine off of a PSU with those specs in stock form. Quote:

Originally Posted by mono with misc other common mods.

Cool, what else did you do to it? I've been thinking about trying that aluminum chassis upgrade kit myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mono Driving junk 87dB speakers in the garage (formerly tested in a carpeted, curtained, furnished room) it's plenty loud enough for normal listening levels. It's ~10W good watts are not enough for the brief periods one might want very loud music but it's entirely loud enough for listening levels you'd use continuously in a moderate-sized room. That makes it a steal for the price and one would typically find worse sound quality if they only focused on wattage alone.

Great, I have 89dB speakers on the way that I plan on setting up in my office... should work just fine.

 

[mono]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox From what I understand, you shouldnt need to mod the T-amp to achieve this... it will run fine off of a PSU with those specs in stock form.Cool, what else did you do to it? I've been thinking about trying that aluminum chassis upgrade kit myself. Great, I have 89dB speakers on the way that I plan on setting up in my office... should work just fine.

Poor choice of wording on my part, but the power related mods involved taking it out of the case and getting rid of switch, replacing the cap, adding a few, then a linear supply similar to a steps but a bit beefier. This was more of a passing comment than an attempt at enumerating all or the remaining mods done to it as there are sufficient threads already devoted to that. Mainly the point would be that having high enough current potential and higher voltage is useful within the context of this thread about it's output power.

There are other issues with getting max power out of it in stock form though, because at some point SI stopped soldering the chip's heat-spreader to the board, resulting in far worse heat retention.

I ended up using a hefty soldering gun (not pencil iron) to add quite a bit of solder to (re)heatsink it as it was intended in the first place. You'll see clearly enough what I mean if/when you look at a newer SI board in person. That's a bit risky though, you have to do it quickly to minimize the heat buildup on the chip. I did it in waves by adding a little at a time, letting it cool, then refluxing and getting it all to flow together as fast as possible. Even then I was concerned about the chip getting hot. It survived though.

Plus I took the ground point to that added solder slug so the wires themselves draw heat away too.

I was going to go with a hammond Al case but it just seems overdone, using a Hammond wouldn't be all that interesting to me, plus after adding up the costs it was getting harder and harder to justfiy building it up to be a $100 amp when there are better kits out there if you want to go that route (like those from 41hz Anyway I had an old router case lying around and vinyl dyed it. Also managed to salvage the ciruit board's power filtration stage plus it was a good (easy) way to mount it all.

After reading this thread I started playing around with it some more because I'd cased it up without really finishing it 100%, wanted a large front panel lightup power indicator but only had an LED in it. Plus I'd ordered some nice speaker binding posts but upon receiving my order they were conspicously missing, sold out apparently. I got impatient and just threw a leftover spring-clip on it, may change it to original plan again next time I need more parts from someplace with suitable binding posts.

 

[philodox]

Wow, sounds like youve done some serious mods there.

 

[sumone]

ha...I eventually ended up buying the T-amp.

Guess what it's doing now...

...the same thing my old textbooks from school that I never use are doing!

I also ended up buying the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1s. They're decent to me.

However, in the back of my mind I keep thinking that the small mids aren't good. What I mean, is that if the speaker enclosure isn't at least a foot high, 6" wide & a foot deep, that the midbass would be weak and that the mids wouldn't sound as "beefy" & full and come out on the harsh side.

I don't know. I'm still new to this area.

 

[mono]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Wow, sounds like youve done some serious mods there.

Well I knew how I wanted it and appreciate that it serves a niche. Any other alternative that produces same or better sound will tend to be larger, more power hungry (including greater cooling/ambient-temp considerations), and obviously costlier. I'm not really sure why some try to argue that it's not the best_thing_since_sliced_bread. Of course it's not, but it's still a nice little amp for those needing something with it's qualities.

I don't recall exact figures but roughly speaking the majority of the time I was listening to it, it wasn't even using 200mA current, That's barely over 2.5W going into it, just a touch over 1W/ch. out.

 

[sumone]

mono,

May I ask what kind of sound you're looking for out of the T-amp; the reason you're doing all these mods?

In other words, with a flat-out stock T-amp, what do you consider is "wrong" (probably a poor word choice) about the sound? Explaining examples like, "I changed the _______ part to do ______ to the sound", etc. would be good enough.

...I'm just trying to "train" or "tune" my hearing.

 

[mono]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumone mono, May I ask what kind of sound you're looking for out of the T-amp; the reason you're doing all these mods? In other words, with a flat-out stock T-amp, what do you consider is "wrong" (probably a poor word choice) about the sound? Explaining examples like, "I changed the _______ part to do ______ to the sound", etc. would be good enough. ...I'm just trying to "train" or "tune" my hearing.

I changed POT to improve tracking.

I changed input coupling caps to lower high-pass filter (more/lower bass) and less coloration, and less coloration from replacement of SMD input resistor with external metal-films matched to keep L/R channels as near same level as reasonable.
I added power supply to reduce power ripple and increase pre-distortion output level.

I recased it because these bits don't fit in the original SI case and it looked too junky, in addition to being light enough that cables might pull it off the shelf. Plus I wanted RCA jack input because minijacks have poor contact, wear out and stress the tiny circuit board pads. The rear of the SI case was already cramped enough.

Added normal volume knob because I like to be able to turn a knob normally- not sure what SI was thinking with that flush-mount smooth knob.

I wasn't wanting to use a SLA battery/recharging all the time and realized that technically it was inferior to a linear supply with a lot of near-amp capacitance.

I put a metal partition in it to reduce EMI from transformer to SI board and I/O wires.

Added solder to chip 'sink plate because it's MEANT to be 'sinked like that, not sure why SI stopped doing it and I'd heard of others who had theirs getting quite hot.

The original spring-clips were too small and poorer contact after time passes. I'd wanted binding posts and as mentioned previously had ordered some, but they never came and I was anxious to get the rest of the thing completed (some prjects, once shelved for awhile, never get finished in a timely manner) so I just reused some slightly-better spring-terminals I'd removed from some other amp before upgrading it's terminals. So, I ended up with it finished and working fine, just need to get more binding posts someday and decide on front panel light... was thinking something that read "tripath".

It should be noted that most of the mods I did, used parts I already had, I would not spend $100 on one of these, and probably not $50 in addition to the amp cost. Even so, when all is said and done if someone didn't "need" more than 5W/ch, they're not going to be able to build anything else better for lower cost.

If I get motivated I'll post a quick pic of mine.

 

[comabereni]

I hope you can "get motived". I'd like to see your finished amp.

-coma

 

[mono]

Quote:

Originally Posted by comabereni I hope you can "get motived". I'd like to see your finished amp. -coma

Heh, motivated meant more like sleep and time...
It's still not finished though, have to replace the rear speaker posts and get the light in front, but if I got apathetic about it then I could just leave it as-is I suppose.

 

[comabereni]

That looks *cool*. I love how you can recase these things in almost anything and have the sound be so impressive. Yeah, that's really neat.

-coma