I have found bidn's post very far from neutral, I would even call them offensive. Not worthy to the festive period and the year end. But let's close the topic and enjoy @Musicalhead kind services and fine stile further.Thanks for this very important question. When i started this hobby i also thought audio magazines can be trusted. Luckily because of the 14 days return policy in Germany this was worse for the shops than for me because i didn't hesitate to use it. I actually got banned from a big shop here because i purchased headphones and DAPs for high amounts that i just returned because they just were not worth the price. Only later i've found trustworthy people like crinacle who have the courage to rank a HD820 in E tier.
I also find it quite disappointing that musicalhead feels offended by your very neutral and justified question and doesn't even answer it. I never heard of him before but i skipped his T+A Review because it looked like a semi-professional or professional review for exactly the reasons you stated and after his answer i won't look into it.
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T+A Solitaire P planar magnetostatic
- Thread starter thinker
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erik701
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ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
You might add 2800€ to the price for the euro countries.T+A announced "lite" version of Solitaire P headphones, Solitaire P-SE $3600 / £3000.
Release is 25.01.2021
Hallo ,
But the SP SE must first show that it is worth this high sum of money !
If he's as far away from Harman's curve as the SP ,he's still far overpriced .
Audiophile Greetings , Nomos
But the SP SE must first show that it is worth this high sum of money !
If he's as far away from Harman's curve as the SP ,he's still far overpriced .
Audiophile Greetings , Nomos
How do you mean add €2800 to the price in Euro countries?You might add 2800€ to the price for the euro countries.
Release is 25.01.2021
I see the P-SE offered for a total of €2800 in Germany!
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
I agree that the SE has still to Show that it is worth it, which is normal in pre release state.Hallo ,
But the SP SE must first show that it is worth this high sum of money !
If he's as far away from Harman's curve as the SP ,he's still far overpriced .
Audiophile Greetings , Nomos
However sounding good has nothing to do with being close to the harman curve as phones like the Raal SR1a demonstrate quite well
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
He wrote 3600$ / 3000£How do you mean add €2800 to the price in Euro countries?
I see the P-SE offered for a total of €2800 in Germany!
And I meant to add 2800€ to that description
3600$ / 3000 £ / 2800€
Yes but if you know he's your taste you can really good use that for orientation. I also have the 9200 and they are by far the best closed back i've ever had but i can understand why he ranks them there as for example the HD600 are just a tick better.
It's not about what he actually ranks that low and if you agree with it or not but it's the fact that he actually ranks something that low. That's the difference. Professional reviewers never rank anything below "very good" and they don't focus on the obvious flaws some products have.
The discussion is getting completely derailed. I think this will be my last post on this very generic discussion that doesn't have much to do with the headline.
Again, not just HD600, but on his site even AirPod Max is better ranked than D9200. Anyway, also define "better". And better for who, which music, which use case, which source. The problem is the single reference ranking - which makes it absolute and there is nothing absolute. There are measurable technicalities that could be scientifically proved to be "better", but when they all work together, they do not make the performance as a whole "better" for a completely different perception. Just picking samples from a few of those variables, generating a subjective model out of those few sample variables and making an absolute ranking based on that is also, for me, not trustworthy. Especially if you compare some new device to something you tried a couple of years ago. I'd rather prefer reviews that don't put everything in one chart, but describe their subjective perceptions, like what Musicalhead does.
There might be a truth to his ranking, for sure, and it is good that it works for you. But there are just too many parameters that add up to that "better". Because the frequency curve does not mean much alone. There are many parameters that could make two completely different tonality headphones to have same average grade, because of different technicalities, different reviewers, different music. "One size fits all" grading system, professional or not, does not exist. But in the end they need to simplify it to a single rating, and new headphones keep coming, which does not work for crinacle or for professional reviews.
Life is fortunately not one size fits all, otherwise probably it would be too boring - though in some areas I wish could be possible. But it is good that you have crinacle as a reference.
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I agree that the SE has still to Show that it is worth it, which is normal in pre release state.
However sounding good has nothing to do with being close to the harman curve as phones like the Raal SR1a demonstrate quite well
If the Headphone between 1,000 hertz and 5,000 hertz between 3 to 7! decibels
the Harman curve is removed, like the T&A, it's just too much !
This has nothing to do with good reproduction of Music .
Best Greetings , Nomos
If the Headphone between 1,000 hertz and 5,000 hertz between 3 to 7! decibels
the Harman curve is removed, like the T&A, it's just too much !
This has nothing to do with good reproduction of Music .
Best Greetings , Nomos
OK.
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
For you, since you seemingly clinge very much to this frequency curve. Or maybe just because it fits your taste.If the Headphone between 1,000 hertz and 5,000 hertz between 3 to 7! decibels
the Harman curve is removed, like the T&A, it's just too much !
This has nothing to do with good reproduction of Music .
Best Greetings , Nomos
The harman curve is far from neutral. So either you have to want a neutral sound or one that correlates to the harman curve. Those are mutually exlusive things.
I personally like neither of those, therefore I rely on reviews that describe sound in comparison to other headphones.
However this harman curve / neutrality / review technique discussion has derailed this thread dor 2-3 pages already.
Feel free to open another thread discussing purely that topic and let us return to the real topic.
The T+A Solitaire P
Nomax is it you?If the Headphone between 1,000 hertz and 5,000 hertz between 3 to 7! decibels
the Harman curve is removed, like the T&A, it's just too much !
This has nothing to do with good reproduction of Music .
Best Greetings , Nomos
No , ..... not everyone who thinks the SP is bad must be Nomax ,Nomax is it you?
And not everyone who thinks the Harman Curve is right is Nomax
No , ..... not everyone who thinks the SP is bad must be Nomax ,
And not everyone who thinks the Harman Curve is right is Nomax
I can perfectly understand why many may not like the Solitaire P, but I am having hard time understanding the negativity and why everyone somehow passing by this thread decides to give a lecture about how to listen to music the right way.
Anyway, as said before, I have both the D8000 Pro and the Solitaire connected in front of me right now. I am sometimes blown away about how much micro information D8000 is able to carve out of even an old recording, like this:
...then I switch to Solitaire P for this exceptionally well made, spacious Nguyen Le album:
...and then comes your comments about curves and dB's...
All OK ,..
and pleasant joy with your good Music and your Headphones
and pleasant joy with your good Music and your Headphones