T+A Solitaire P planar magnetostatic

[ThanatosVI]

I could be wrong but it looks like the same driver to me, just tuned differently i suspect, i will ask Bernd at T+A for info

The new driver is called TPM 2500 and based on the TPM 3100 which is used on the Solitaire P.

According to the website.

I will inquire by T+A about sonical differences and also ask my dealer if I can get the SE on loan as well

 

[offtherecord]

The new driver is called TPM 2500 and based on the TPM 3100 which is used on the Solitaire P.

According to the website.

I will inquire by T+A about sonical differences and also ask my dealer if I can get the SE on loan as well

Ahh yes, you are correct, would be interesting to see the difference how a much lower impedance than the regular Solitaire P would translate on my SDv 3100 HV as it can output 1.5w in pure Class A which was the only reason that put me off from buying the regular version, and i do not want to go down the route of buying a seperate headphone amp.

I too will enquire with my local T+A dealer about getting a pair to demo....cheers and happy holidays

 

[DarginMahkum]

So now that I have it on my desk, I can take it to a test drive and compare to D8000 Pro. To have a more balanced opinion, I also asked the support of my wife, who, unlike me, likes Focal signature (especially Stellia) and makes music and sound design professionally - with her original version HD800.

They told me that, T+A recommends about 100 hours for the sound to settle, and it has about 20-30 hours on it at the moment. Let's see...

 

[Nomax]

Little Brother....THE SOLITAIRE P SE

https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/Solitaire_P_SE_GB.pdf


NOMAX

PS.2800 Euros

 

[ThanatosVI]

Little Brother....THE SOLITAIRE P SE

https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/Solitaire_P_SE_GB.pdf


NOMAX

PS.2800 Euros

Thx for mentioning the price.
Depending on how close it is to the big brother it could be a killer headphone in its bracket

 

[DarginMahkum]

So now I spent a few hours, some initial impressions for the comfort. I don't like the headband design. It is thick and soft from the top but but short and too curved, and the two ends of the headband have plastic parts and they do touch my head. I do have a larger head and, for example, I cannot get a proper fit with Diana, but still there could have been a better design. The headband should have been longer and the end should have not been terminated with a plastic part. That is a fail.

D8000 also does not have the most comfortable headband design but what they have done is, the driver parts can rotate which helps to find a better location on the head tilting the headband back and forward.

One thing that is good is the clamping force. D8000 has a strong clamping force and with those huge "pillows" it gets waaaaarm. And they are round. Solitaire has a better earcup design (which also gives a taller sound), though it is not rotatable like the D8000.

My other beloved HP, D9200 also presses on my head from the top and it has much less cushion, but it is lighter than both, so the weight makes up for it.

In that sense, I think HFM has the best comfort and design, although it might not be the most robust. Focal also has a better comfort. I wish I loved the sound more (I liked the Clear, though listened shortly).

EDIT: I have fit problems with many, so it is still at a level I can overlook (by tilting "the whole HP" to the front), but wish it was better.

 

[DarginMahkum]

I have been listening to the Solitaire P with Hiby R8 and HA200. Hiby R8 is one of the most powerful DAPs out there with excellent mids - but it just doesn't do the justice for Solitaire P. I think Solitaire P really needs a proper amp with a very good DAC. I noticed that the reviews that praise the Solitaire most are with HA200. With R8 the mids lose the focus and are kind of uncontrolled. On HA200 it is at a different level.

So if you are looking to use the Solitaire P with a portable setup, unless you have a real good portable amp like Romi BX2 Plus (just guessing that it might help but not for sure), I wouldn't recommend it.

D8000 are easier to drive and are the clearer of the two. The clarity difference is more audible on R8 than HA200. The imaging and separation is incredible on HA200. The sound room of Solitaire is biiig. Tall and deep. It is a whole different level of experience! At least for me it neither lacks mids, nor the treble. Because the sound room is big, you don't need the intimacy or the push, it is right there in its own space.

My main testing album is "El cuento de la buena pipa" from Alain Perez which is a very well produced album.

 

[DarginMahkum]

I guess one of the reasons why I liked Solitaire so much is the bass, the majestic bass that goes growling low and fills the room. But at the same time does not take away from the rest of the frequency spectrum, as it has so much space to move. I do love bass players (Alain Perez is also a bass player), so I wanted to check this time my other favorite "bass player" albums, Golden Striker Live from Ron Carter, and Oriental Bass and Mediterranees from Renaud Garcia-Fons.

One issue with Solitaire is that, as you have such a big 3D sound room if you immediately hear the incoherence between the recording rooms of different instruments and their reverberation. Same with vocals. With other headphones you notice it, with Solitaire it can become annoying. Listening to the start with the majestic 5 string double bass of Garcia Fons, then accordion comes in which is just weak and off.



Then you might think that it is something to the with the frequency response of Solitaire, but it is not, as accordion mix is well done in the whole Mediterranees album:



But switching to Golden Striker from Ron Carter, that massive sounding reverby bass is gone and you have a very controlled and tamed bass. And it is depicted perfectly, nothing overpowered. Mids and upper frequencies are dancing perfectly over the bass.

I think if you are targeting Solitaire, you should keep these in mind:

- It is brutally accurate, nothing more, nothing less, so you better have good recordings if you are sensitive
- It needs a very good accompanying source.
- Again, I don't think anything is missing from the mids or highs

D8000. Well, it is an excellent HP but Solitaire is something else when it comes to depicting a 3D image with dead sharp imaging and separation. Especially after listening to a recording where the percussion and bass is not shy to fill in the space, or there is a "cacophony" of instruments like the Alain Perez albums, it is difficult to switch back to D8000, which has been my favorite planar so far.

 

[Newsee]

So now I spent a few hours, some initial impressions for the comfort. I don't like the headband design. It is thick and soft from the top but but short and too curved, and the two ends of the headband have plastic parts and they do touch my head. I do have a larger head and, for example, I cannot get a proper fit with Diana, but still there could have been a better design. The headband should have been longer and the end should have not been terminated with a plastic part. That is a fail.



D8000 also does not have the most comfortable headband design but what they have done is, the driver parts can rotate which helps to find a better location on the head tilting the headband back and forward.



One thing that is good is the clamping force. D8000 has a strong clamping force and with those huge "pillows" it gets waaaaarm. And they are round. Solitaire has a better earcup design (which also gives a taller sound), though it is not rotatable like the D8000.

My other beloved HP, D9200 also presses on my head from the top and it has much less cushion, but it is lighter than both, so the weight makes up for it.

In that sense, I think HFM has the best comfort and design, although it might not be the most robust. Focal also has a better comfort. I wish I loved the sound more (I liked the Clear, though listened shortly).

EDIT: I have fit problems with many, so it is still at a level I can overlook (by tilting "the whole HP" to the front), but wish it was better.

I had also fit problems with Diana. On the contrary, I find the Solitaire P very comfortable. Well cushioned headband, big oval ear pieces, enogh room for my ears. Unfortunately have not had the chance for long continuous listening. During the few hours of A/B-ing with Empyrean no comfort difference was obvious. True, the focus was on sound, not on comfort.

 

[DarginMahkum]

I had also fit problems with Diana. On the contrary, I find the Solitaire P very comfortable. Well cushioned headband, big oval ear pieces, enogh room for my ears. Unfortunately have not had the chance for long continuous listening. During the few hours of A/B-ing with Empyrean no comfort difference was obvious. True, the focus was on sound, not on comfort.

It is actually quite comfortable otherwise, but has the "I am here" touch sometimes. I just need to fiddle a bit, then it is fine. But for long term listening it is very good. Also I didn't feel any discomfort wearing glasses.

 

[ThanatosVI]

I had also fit problems with Diana. On the contrary, I find the Solitaire P very comfortable. Well cushioned headband, big oval ear pieces, enogh room for my ears. Unfortunately have not had the chance for long continuous listening. During the few hours of A/B-ing with Empyrean no comfort difference was obvious. True, the focus was on sound, not on comfort.

Please share your impressions when A/B ing with the Empyrean.
I am interested in the Solitaire P and my favourite pair of headphones are the Empyrean.

Would be nice to have a comparison in the classic sound disciplines, Bass muss treble soundstage etc.

 

[DarginMahkum]

In the end, I decided to keep the Solitaire P. It is a demo unit, so I got a good price offer / drop on it plus the VAT drop in Germany. It is not going to replace my D8000 Pro or D9200 (replaced Stellia, which costs about double its price). I have been listening to different recordings since Friday, also invited the third player, D9200, in the game.

There are scenarios (and temporary preferences) that doesn't benefit much from the large space and might make some instruments sound iffy, in which case I prefer the more tight envelope of D8000 more. It gives a better texture feeling, but actually in real life and live listening one would rarely have this intimacy and well enveloped texture. Also there is a bit of more "air" with D8000 and D9200 which I can imagine might be a preference in certain cases, but this is also something more nitpicking which is more noticeable if you switch back and forth between the HPs, but the feeling subsidies in seconds. For example this little piece from Alain Perez & Omara Portuondo album ADN, one might prefer the D8000 / D9200 sound (side note, I cannot believe Omara was over 80 as she recorded this and have this control over her voice):



I think main question could have been, how the vocals will sound. I tried different well made recordings of Cecilia Bartoli, Ghada Shbeir, and female vocals actually rendered extremely well which does not need the unnatural extra push of Focals. I mainly listened to my wife's album and had her listen to it (she just hates listening to it), who is a Stellia fan, and she was very impressed with the rendition. For example, with this piece, it is easier to hear some nuances with D8000 and the vocals pop up more, but with the Solitaire P, you are inside the room, and all the bowed instruments are rendered more emotional (the "strange" instrument you year at 0:14 and 1:41 is called a singing saw):



The subtle back vocals merge better with the main vocals here.

I don't think it is lacking any details. On the contrary, it can easily fill up the space with reverberations and harmonics. But as said, this expansive sound makes the mixing issues related to locations and recording space differences more visible. It is not a "throw whatever you want at it and it will sound as good" HP like D8000 Pro.

 

[DarginMahkum]

One last comment, for the heavy gain music. Here the subtle compressed and closer rendition of D8000 Pro helps. For example, this piece from the last album of Nile, Vile Nilotic Rites. Guitars sound disconnected from the bass and drums. Don't get me wrong, it is still great but I would probably even prefer my D9200 over Solitaire for listening to this kind of mix. D9200 is a _very_ clear and balanced sounding HP and I would never see it as less, just because it costs less. For me it is the most underrated HP ever! It is closed, yes, but it is nearly a ringing free experience, which amazes me every time I listen to it. I think one can with a less budget can easily grab a D9200 and enjoy having a TOTL sounding HP, which is closed, light and comfortable. Anyway, here is the piece:



It is again a problem with the mix: Strong kicks, very 3D drums and bass, massive sounding splashy cymbals, but very flat guitars. But it does not have to be, just as in the original mastering (I don't like the 2004 remaster) of the Megadeth's Train of Consequences. It sounds awesome with Solitaire:



So, if you want to be mix independent for high gain music, if you have enough money to buy Solitire P, D8000 Pro and D9200, I would highly recommend here the D9200, and with the remaining money you can upgrade your amp. It will leak less, sound in general more satisfying. In fact, for anyone looking for a closed back, I would highly recommend the D9200. Next choice would be D8000 Pro and then Solitaire, if you want to be on the safe side - that is for high gain music.

 

[DarginMahkum]

I know I flooded enough but this is also some important point if you have HD800 cables or want to buy HD800 cables, and considering to use them on Solitaire. The sockets are really deep for a normal connector, so it will be difficult to push in. Even if you do, to pull out, you need to pull out holding the cable, which might not be good for cable connections. So you need either longer plugs, or design some DIY extensions:

And this is not even firmly attached yet:

 

[ThanatosVI]

I know I flooded enough but this is also some important point if you have HD800 cables or want to buy HD800 cables, and considering to use them on Solitaire. The sockets are really deep for a normal connector, so it will be difficult to push in. Even if you do, to pull out, you need to pull out holding the cable, which might not be good for cable connections. So you need either longer plugs, or design some DIY extensions:



And this is not even firmly attached yet:

Is it hard to firmly attach it?
I ordered adapters which I won't have to remove ever again (unless they die, but how unlikely is that)

So my concern is more with the attachment not the removal.

Your posts are very welcome so keep the flood flowing