[rickcr42]

Quote:

I think I'll stay away from adding anything but purely technical information like that .

don't be shy man

Quote:

Do you find anything wrong with the schematic and the way we are going about the whole switchbox thing? I cant see it getting any simpler than this...what am I doing wrong?

Now THAT is FUNNY !!!!!!!!!

did i not pretty much say something similiar like...ohh..yesterday ?

BTW-for those who have "lesser" requirements but maybe are looking for a useful speaker A/speaker B/headphone switch i will put a link to the pdf up.even if you have several headphone amps it never hurts to have the option to hook up to a power amps (especially with some of the AKG cans)

 

[gaboo]

What about building a circuit for a proper double blind test? IMO it would be far more worthwhile than building a super switch that would still be affected by the subjective factor: "switch! So something must have changed (or not depending on what the subject is expecting)..."

It seems we'd need at least two switches to build that. Given two sources A, B with 3-wire stereo signal each, one needs to (i) produce two more sources X, Y such that either (A=X and B=Y) or (A=Y and B=X) in a way that hides the identities of X and Y from the subject, and (ii) give the subject the ability to choose what he is listening to: A, B, X or Y.

For (i) I see a crossover switch sufficient. This can be controlled by the experimenter (!= subject), or some other fancy random source. For (ii) we'd need a 4-to-1 switch.

All switches need to be 3-channel of course, to avoid ground loops and such.

<Asbestos flame suit on>

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

My own switch will be for my own private use and it may end up in a brown cardboard box and wired with bell-wire for all I care, but if someone is building this to bring to head-fi meets it may increase confidence in the switch if it looks like it was made with high quality professional looking jacks, switches and wire.

don't take this personal or think i am picking on you but WHY ?

Does it really matter if something looks like it should increase your confidence or is the goal to have something actually SOUND and perfrom better ?

i just don't get you guys.Did anyone read my earlier statement about manufacturers ripping off the public by adding a "pretty face" to a POS ?

Was not the original thread causing all the hub bub one that claimed the switch box colored the sound and was a problem for a certain amp ?

Does a $100 face plate make something perform and sound better ?

I give up guys.when you are done i will look over the thread and weigh in if i see harmful misinformation but otherwise you are on your own

good luck,really

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

<Asbestos flame suit on>

jsut could not resist.THAT is funny !

 

[gaboo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

Nice balanced vs. unbalanced app note. Thanks!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 you guys are really clueless and need to do some actual research before you become self appointed audio engineers. do you not realise there are not a small number of new members that don't know squat and read these types of posts from members with a high post count as if it were gospel ?

I have my suit on, already.....LOL.....Rick, honestly, I'm not doubting at all of your vast knowledge, and maybe even you are right to a certain point, or the whole point, but just for a second, was not evidence enough for you, that someone PMed Dr. Gilmore asking why his PPA ground channel was shorted, during the use of this box?

About the parts numbers I agree with you that not necesarily have to be those ones, and any other of similar quality, or evne inferior, will work as well.

Post the links if you like, and illustrate us, please, I will be the first in admit that I'm wrong in that matter, if this was the case, but till now, I believe I'm not.....this box needs IMO a 3 pole switch to isolate grounds...for that particular application.

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 don't take this personal or think i am picking on you but WHY ? Does it really matter if something looks like it should increase your confidence or is the goal to have something actually SOUND and perfrom better ? i just don't get you guys.Did anyone read my earlier statement about manufacturers ripping off the public by adding a "pretty face" to a POS ? Was not the original thread causing all the hub bub one that claimed the switch box colored the sound and was a problem for a certain amp ? Does a $100 face plate make something perform and sound better ?

I don't disagree with your points above. But is this the time and place to take a stand on those points? I think not. Again, I think gs is building his box to use at head-fi meets and he is going to want people to have some confidence that his box is built with good components. if he shows up with a plastic box and 50 cent surplus jacks I think he's going to get laughed out of the room.

 

[rickcr42]

ok,said i would bow out but questions must be answered kiddies

no way an amp shorted out from an a/b switch.just not possible.

look at the schematic......tell me what could possible cause a short circuit or any other abberation that would case a problem.Trace the signal path from beginning to end then picture an amp and two sets of cans connected to the amp through the box.

EVEN A DEAD SHORT would only place the cans in parallel with the output and any amp that would blow up from driving two sets of cans has other issues not switchbox related.but the very nature of the switch means only ONE load is presented to the amp at a time and the other disconnected.The "grounding circuit" wors are meaningless unless the entire load is connected.both hot and ground !

other than a digital optical signal or RF signals you can not have electronic signal transmission/continuity without both a "hot" and a "reference" circuit .and even the optical/rf are reconstructed (demodulated) back into a +/- electronic signal

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 ok,said i would bow out but questions must be answered kiddies no way an amp shorted out from an a/b switch.just not possible. look at the schematic......tell me what could possible cause a short circuit or any other abberation that would case a problem.Trace the signal path from beginning to end then picture an amp and two sets of cans connected to the amp through the box. EVEN A DEAD SHORT would only place the cans in parallel with the output and any amp that would blow up from driving two sets of cans has other issues not switchbox related.but the very nature of the switch means only ONE load is presented to the amp at a time and the other disconnected.The "grounding circuit" wors are meaningless unless the entire load is connected.both hot and ground ! other than a digital optical signal or RF signals you can not have electronic signal transmission/continuity without both a "hot" and a "reference" circuit .and even the optical/rf are reconstructed (demodulated) back into a +/- electronic signal

OK let's take the PPA as an A amp, and any other as B amp, just as an example, you have input ground connected to AC ground on the PPA, the same as the other amp B, just that in the amp B also the output is connected to ground, as the ground channel is not an active channel, it is just a wire from input to output, or the case, or the chasis, etc....now you hook them in the box, and what you get? The ground that runs along the B amp, is connected to the ground of the PPA output, so you have input on PPA connected ot ground, and output on PPA connected to ground, through the other amp, if you do not call this a short in the ground channel, how do you call it? IMO you are completelly shorting the ground channel.....

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

I don't disagree with your points above. But is this the time and place to take a stand on those points? I think not.

this is absolutely the time and place because a bunch of amatuers left the impression they could do things better than Ray Samuels when they can't even figure out how to wire up three jacks and a switch without three pages of dialog !

I have no affiliation with ANY amp designer or builder but I am not one to sit on the sidelines when i see things thrown around meant to knock something by folks who know doo doo about the subject.

A sipler circuit there is not than a switch meant to select two different things.so you want to also switch the grounds simultaneosly ? FINE !

Add another pole to the switch !
what could be easier ?

chassis isolation ?
Use a damn polycarbonate enclosure !
Again,simple solutions for a simple device.

but the OH NO ! we gotta have the bestist this and the most fantabulous that stuff makes me wince .According to WHO are these the best anything ?

because someone somewhere said it ?

Or because all the amps being built and sold use these parts ? (and exept for the ones that blow up all pretty much sound the same?)

free thinkers pioneer and everyone else follows.

the "i can do better" always pisses me off when those saying it have no clue and never even used or heard the device being "bettered"

i am just really seriously releived that a crew that takes two pages to make a passive switch hasn't decided to tackle a 400 volt tube amp or we could have casualties here instead of just wasted loot


Again,i have no problem with anyone building anything.i think DIY is the coolest hobby there is.It is just how we got here that sucks

 

[Earwax]

You're reading way more into this than is here in this thread. We were trying to do this as just a simple DIY project and leave the politics of the other thread behind.

GS had the wiring posted in his first diagram, he just asked for help in find the parts & part numbers to build it. If you want to help, please do, otherwise stop crapping on this thread.

It's just a switchbox, it's not a political statement of any kind.

Constuctive input from ANYONE is welcome.

 

[rickcr42]

listen man.in case you failed to notice i moderate the DIY forum and it is my job to make sure exuberance does not get the best of some of our members at the expense of solid information which like all things "a little knowledge can be dangerous".

And not political my behind !

opening statement and exibit A :

Quote:

These are my interpretations of Dr. Gilmore's posts in another thread.

this whole matter stated there is was not left alone to die on its own even when the thread was closed by a MODERATOR in the interest of keeping the peace.Then five minutes later this thread pops up and directly refers to the one requiring closing and you say "not political" ?

I was born at night but not last night and not only can but will lock this down if it gets out of hand

 

[TrevorNetwork]

Rick:

While I am sure the contributors to this thread appreciate your knowledge, why not just let them design whatever they would like? Is that not the spirit of DIY? Excess, and experiementaton are the essence of DIY. Head-fi's DIY members do not need "big brother" bearing down upon them. If you would like to be a moderator, and decent member rather than a power tripper simply state your opinion, and leave the thread. A moderator's job is not meant to be intrusive, especially in the DIY forum. Nothing has been stated prior to your intruding in the thread that necessitated moderation. It was simply a few members musing on an excessive implementation of a simple device.

 

[JMT]

You guys want to design and build a switchbox, then do it. But if this thread keeps going on the path that it appears to, I will lock it.

 

[gsferrari]

Back on topic - I have added certain people to my ignore list and anyone who wants to proceed with a sensible discussion will be advised to do so.

I have not yet looked for the 3PDT switch but will be back in a few minutes with the part numbers and prices. I dont think a group buy is necessary - lets just set up a guide for anyone who wants to do the same project with ordering details etc.

That will be useful.

I apologize that this thread got messed up despite my best intentions and despite my requests in the beginning to keep things clean. But sometimes, just as in real life, you are never completely in control.