[Thorsten Loesch]

Hi, following your "advice" I decided to feed my ZEN CAN some extra amps

I ordered this power brick from Amazon.de (5V/6A, 30W).

Please confirm that my ZEN CAN will survive

Of course. It needs 5V and will protect itself from higher voltages.

As for the brick, these are a bit of a "crapshoot in the dark", may be good or not.

Thor

 

[Lexxie]

@Thorsten Loesch

Thor, thanks a lot for teaching us!

I have a standard ZEN stack and want to upgrade it.

---Current Setup---
The CAN uses iPower (USA 110-120V) version, which says 5V 2.5A on the sticker.
The DAC V2 uses the stock USB3 cable for power.
My 2 headphones are 58X: 150ohm BAL, and DT770: 250ohm SE.
---
The level of DIY I can do is low. I could do a kit that had all the parts specified, with an instruction sheet of exactly what to do. The level of specificity in this thread is over my head. I must find a simpler alternative to upgrade, even if its costs more.

I seek the best option to get the best result while not spending over $150.

My very limited understanding for my options right now are:

Options:
1. One Allo Shanti LPS with dual outputs, 5v 3A and 5V 1.2A. It can power the CAN and DAC. The 3A is not ideal but still better than 2.5A, and maybe upgrade with supercapacitor brick later(?!)
2. Two Lusya 5V Super Capacitor Power Filters for $26 each free shipping to California. $52. Get some USB-C to DC-5.5x2.1mm adaptors. $67. Use iPower to feed the DAC's supercap, and use something else to feed the CAN's supercap. $87. ($63 still left for other sonic improvements!)

What do you think? Or would you do something else for more bang-for-bucks with a $150 budget?

What do you think is better for the CAN? Clean 5V 3A power, or dirty SMSP giving 5V 6A? (Hard to find 5V 4A and higher for clean power).

Thank you in advance!

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Thor, thanks a lot for teaching us!

My pleasure.

---Current Setup---
The CAN uses iPower (USA 110-120V) version, which says 5V 2.5A on the sticker.
The DAC V2 uses the stock USB3 cable for power.
My 2 headphones are 58X: 150ohm BAL, and DT770: 250ohm SE.

Neither headphone is very hard to drive. So more power for the Zen CAN may not be the first order.

The level of DIY I can do is low. I could do a kit that had all the parts specified, with an instruction sheet of exactly what to do. The level of specificity in this thread is over my head. I must find a simpler alternative to upgrade, even if its costs more.

The capacitors have two wires. It is no more difficult than hooking up a bunch of LED Lights for example.

I think watching a few you tube video's on soldering should do the job.

Personally I just bend the capacitor wires to the side and then solder the capacitors together making a block. Then two wires (+/-) in and two out.

Buy a short DC-DC 5.5mm cable and use that to make the two ends. Done.

I seek the best option to get the best result while not spending over $150.

My very limited understanding for my options right now are:

Options:
1. One Allo Shanti LPS with dual outputs, 5v 3A and 5V 1.2A. It can power the CAN and DAC. The 3A is not ideal but still better than 2.5A, and maybe upgrade with supercapacitor brick later(?!)

I had a look. It seems ok build for the money:

The "Supercapacitors on the output" seem more show than substance. R-Core transformers just like toroid transformers they have higher mains leakage than multi-chamber types.

The rest seems solid enough and with 2 DC Outputs it's like a one stop solution for a Zen Stack, with "Zen-ish" price.

I would not exactly endorse it, but you could spend your money worse ways.

Mind you, for the Zen's I don't think it is really better than these:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801584320437.html (for Zen Can)

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800848485119.html (for Zen DAC)

These two come in at 100 USD including delivery. This may leave enough cash for a super capacitor block or two.

Again, not endorsing these supplies, but I think you could do worse. A lot worse.

See how much delivery on the Allo is, compare the two options.

You could also initially use the iFi iPower on the DAC to reduce spending.

2. Two Lusya 5V Super Capacitor Power Filters for $26 each free shipping to California. $52. Get some USB-C to DC-5.5x2.1mm adaptors. $67. Use iPower to feed the DAC's supercap, and use something else to feed the CAN's supercap. $87. ($63 still left for other sonic improvements!)

I had a look, these have fairly low capacitance, but cost is low and they are ready made.

What do you think? Or would you do something else for more bang-for-bucks with a $150 budget?

IF IT WAS MY MONEY I was spending and only your list is possible (and I am not spending your money), and I really did not want to DIY, I'd get the two Aliexpress linear PSU's and the Supercap Bricks, plus adapters. I think this will be most "bang for bux"

BUT the Allo Shanti is less hassle, all in one, plug, play, enjoy and forget and not a bad option either.

What do you think is better for the CAN? Clean 5V 3A power, or dirty SMSP giving 5V 6A? (Hard to find 5V 4A and higher for clean power).

Key metrics are mains leakage and general EMC/EMI. I would go with linear supplies, these guarantee low mains leakage and low EMI by principle. SMPS can be designed to be as good, but most are not. So if buying off the shelf more or less untested and unknown, linear PSU is always the better choice over an unknown SMPS.

Thank you in advance!

You are most welcome.

Thor

 

[marekm]

Neither headphone is very hard to drive. So more power for the Zen CAN may not be the first order.

I confirm. I replaced iFi Audio iPower with a 5V/6A brick and did not notice any upgrade.

My headphones: HiFiMan Edition XS (Balanced) and BD TT900 Pro X (SE).

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

I confirm. I replaced iFi Audio iPower with a 5V/6A brick and did not notice any upgrade.

My headphones: HiFiMan Edition XS (Balanced) and BD TT900 Pro X (SE).

You might notice with the HiFiman, bass boost and crossfeed on and playing quite loud.

Thor

 

[overhaze]

Hey Thor can I ask is the Zen Can's worse than average crosstalk performance a side effect of the 3D filter? I've always had a hunch that was it.

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Hey Thor can I ask is the Zen Can's worse than average crosstalk performance a side effect of the 3D filter? I've always had a hunch that was it.

It is a result of using CMOS Switches (in light of the cost and for reliability) in this filter. It is the capacitive coupling via a fairly high capacitance but very low resistance and low distortion switch also used elsewhere in the product. It would have been better to use a higher resistance and lower capacitance switch to have better measured crosstalk, but that would have added to cost and procurement difficulty, having to manage another part.

While it looks on paper like a problem, in reality it is not.

When feeding an out of phase between channels (as would happen with music) the leakage is cancelled due to the signal and the exact nature of the circuit, as this "crosstalk" is actually in opposite phase to the signal. One might say that is an artefact of the specific way of measuring "crosstalk" by muting one channel. The result may be better termed "crosstalk cancellation) than crosstalk and may actually result in a very marginally wider soundstage or a marginally improved spaciousness...

With -56dB @ 1kHz & -36dB @ 10kHz this crosstalk cancellation is likely inaudible and will be hard to measure when using out of phase or in phase signals.

It is a typical example where measurements do not match what happens a device is used to listen to music.

Thor

 

[overhaze]

It is a result of using CMOS Switches (in light of the cost and for reliability) in this filter. It is the capacitive coupling via a fairly high capacitance but very low resistance and low distortion switch also used elsewhere in the product. It would have been better to use a higher resistance and lower capacitance switch to have better measured crosstalk, but that would have added to cost and procurement difficulty, having to manage another part.

While it looks on paper like a problem, in reality it is not.

When feeding an out of phase between channels (as would happen with music) the leakage is cancelled due to the signal and the exact nature of the circuit, as this "crosstalk" is actually in opposite phase to the signal. One might say that is an artefact of the specific way of measuring "crosstalk" by muting one channel. The result may be better termed "crosstalk cancellation) than crosstalk and may actually result in a very marginally wider soundstage or a marginally improved spaciousness...

With -56dB @ 1kHz & -36dB @ 10kHz this crosstalk cancellation is likely inaudible and will be hard to measure when using out of phase or in phase signals.

It is a typical example where measurements do not match what happens a device is used to listen to music.

Thor

Cheers for the answer!

 

[MAYA EL]

Hi I have a zen can and I went to use it the other day and it wont play music at all infact the only thing it will do is all of the LED's flash in a pattern for about 3 flashes then nothing for about a second then 3 more flashes, non of the knobs respond at all . I've looked all over the internet but I can't find anything on the topic and I figured if anyone would know what's wrong with it it would be you lol

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Hi I have a zen can and I went to use it the other day and it wont play music at all infact the only thing it will do is all of the LED's flash in a pattern for about 3 flashes then nothing for about a second then 3 more flashes, non of the knobs respond at all . I've looked all over the internet but I can't find anything on the topic and I figured if anyone would know what's wrong with it it would be you lol

Check the powersupply first.

Everything is driven by a CPU, the powersupply needs to stabilize before anything else can work.

Thor

PS, you should talk to ifi's support.

 

[MAYA EL]

Check the powersupply first.

Everything is driven by a CPU, the powersupply needs to stabilize before anything else can work.

Thor

PS, you should talk to ifi's support.

I tried 2 different power supplies and it didn't help still flashing all the led's .. I'll ask if I'm guessing they have a chat on their home website or something? I'll go look for something now, thanks for your time

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

I tried 2 different power supplies and it didn't help still flashing all the led's .. I'll ask if I'm guessing they have a chat on their home website or something? I'll go look for something now, thanks for your time

The LED's flash while operation conditions stabilize, after turning on.

Once finished, the Zen Can is supposed to remember last settings and you should see one LED for gain, one for input and the Crossfeed/EQ indicators as applicable.

It is possible for the memory to become corrupted. While there is a mechanism in the Firmware that SHOULD recover from corrupted memory, it may not be present and if it just uses a check digit, so it might get fooled.

There should be a "factory reset" function in the Firmware as well, but I didn't program this and do not know if it present and how to engage it.

As said, you need to talk to ifi for all that.

Thor

 

[overhaze]

Hey Thor I saw a post over a Reddit where someone plugged the 15volt 500ma linear power supply that came with their Atom Dac into their Zen Dac. Amazingly it didn't instantly kill it an actually worked. Is using that power supply with the Zen Dac or Zen Can safe or even desirable? Did he just get lucky?

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Hey Thor I saw a post over a Reddit where someone plugged the 15volt 500ma linear power supply that came with their Atom Dac into their Zen Dac. Amazingly it didn't instantly kill it an actually worked. Is using that power supply with the Zen Dac or Zen Can safe or even desirable? Did he just get lucky?

It worked because first the Zen DAC protected itself from the 15V and disconnected the external PSU and failed over transparently to use USB bus power.

Non of the "Zen" (except I'm not sure on "Stream") will work with anything but 5V +/- 20%. They are protected against reverse polarity and overvoltage at sensible levels, likely up to 20V or so, but I don't recommend testing that.

Thor

 

[zappp]

I downgraded from iFi iPower X to a cheap 5V 10A 50W brick from Amazon, labelled "Velain". Probably it's no longer available from this brand or seller next week.

I noticed no downgrade of sound with Beyerdynamic Xelentos (16Ω, 114db). I noticed more "oompf" with AKG K1000. The K712 benefit from a better amp and are easier to drive, but the K1000 still excel in hot weather.

Thorsten wrote elsewhere:

"The Zen Can uses its own DC-DC converter that converts 5V to +/-12V. This converter runs at 1.2MHz and thus cancels any lower frequency noise. The DC-DC converter uses relatively high values of inductor and capacitance to reduce ripple followed by LC filtering to remove noise. As such, the Zen Can is by inherent design impervious to external power quality."

"The Zen DAC (and incidentally the NEO which is more similar than different in design) use LC filtering and linear regulators for all critical circuitry, switching regulators for the rest, except the headphone Output stage. The headphone Output stage runs from 5V with extra LC filtering as it contains a switching inverter to generate -5V. This circuit has good but finite power supply rejection. So there may differences in power supply quality audible with headphones."

But not with external headphone amp, power amp or active speakers?