Summit-Fi Random Thoughts

[chesebert]

I was just thinking, this hobby is outrageous. The price we spend for great sound is astonishing. It has completely ruined my perception of money. Like, I'm building a new pc because my previous one completely bricked (I can't even get into the bios and the mobo won't recognize any keyboard), and it's gonna cost like $8k, and I'm like that's nothing. That's not a big cost at all. In reality, an $8k pc is insane (I do custom water cooling though). The audiophile situation has completely warped my perception of what a good value is.

got a link to PCpartspicker? I’m curious.

 

[SolarCetacean]

I think rose-colored glasses isn't quite the correct term, as I always took rose-colored glasses to be akin to nostalgia for a past that is now gone. With the old classic headphones, people still have working units of them. It's possible to take the latest and greatest and listen to them side-by-side with the classic headphones, so in that case it's not really an instance of nostalgia hyping things up in the same way.

But I think there's a lot of truth in the statement that "good headphones stay good". The old headphones don't become obsolete with new releases in the same way that computers do. The RTX 4090 will be eclipsed in short order with whatever new architecture is coming out next, and if not the next generation, then the one after. A GPU will be all but worthless 10 years from now. Yet we have 20-year-old headphones that are still considered benchmarks in sound. Now sure, a new headphone may be better in some areas, but making an improvement in all areas without sacrificing the existing attributes is extremely difficult. The new headphones are likely more "technical" with better detail clarity and imaging and all of those attributes, but is that at the expense of other qualities that people find enjoyable? I like the technical tuning of the X9000, so I tend to not have the issues that the old guard have with the newer breed of tuning. But things are always cyclic, and just like there's a revival in vinyl, in a few years there may be the reverse trend towards warmer tunings in headphones and I'll be the old guy pining for the early 2020's when headphones were tuned for technicalities.

 

[Ciggavelli]

got a link to PCpartspicker? I’m curious.

Nah, I didn't use that.

14900k, asus dark hero mobo, 128gb of gskill ddr5 (I had spare ram, because I thought I had a ram issue with my last build), 4090 FE, EKWB waterblocks, two 8tb Samsung SSD, 4tb PCIE M.2 for the boot, 3 ek radiators, custom hard tubed water cooling, Cooler Master HAF 700 evo e-atx, Lian Li AL V2 linked fans,

 

[theveterans]

Anybody find V-shape FR suits IEMs so frigging fantastic while the same for headphones sounds like crap?

 

[chesebert]

Anybody find V-shape FR suits IEMs so frigging fantastic while the same for headphones sounds like crap?

What does V shape even mean without some context - eg what‘s the compensation curve and measurement instrument.

 

[chesebert]

Nah, I didn't use that.

14900k, asus dark hero mobo, 128gb of gskill ddr5 (I had spare ram, because I thought I had a ram issue with my last build), 4090 FE, EKWB waterblocks, two 8tb Samsung SSD, 4tb PCIE M.2 for the boot, 3 ek radiators, custom hard tubed water cooling, Cooler Master HAF 700 evo e-atx, Lian Li AL V2 linked fans,

That can’t be 8k… can it? Gaming or you are running ANN on the side?

 

[theveterans]

What does V shape even mean without some context - eg what‘s the compensation curve and measurement instrument.

As compared to Harman Curve target IEC-711 Coupler:

Yes to my ears and compared to Susvara, my IEMs sounds like that but both Susvara and Bonneville are incredibly engaging in their own way where both sounds big and expansive despite their FR being totally opposite of each other. I just find that V-shape tuned IEMs sounds tonally correct when earlobe HRTF is totally eliminated

 

[HiFiWar]

Anybody find V-shape FR suits IEMs so frigging fantastic while the same for headphones sounds like crap?

Honestly? You could say that about headphones and IEMs for both sides of that argument.

 

[theveterans]

Honestly? You could say that about headphones and IEMs for both sides of that argument.

Interesting. I personally haven't heard a headphone that's 10+ dB boost on subbass and treble V-shape but is able to sound very refined and natural. IEMs with multiple drivers are able to pull this off easily. Susvara when EQed loses its refinement and introduces veil to its sound

 

[SolarCetacean]

One of the Sennheiser guys on their Beyond The Curve videos (Jermo I think?) mentioned something about how IEMs don't interact with as much of the body as headphones do, and headphones less than speakers, so IEMs need more bass to sound as bassy. His explanation was that the sound wave from speakers interacts with the whole body, so we perceive more of it, particularly bass because low frequency waves need space to form and propagate. Thus, a flat measuring speaker would already sound quite bassy and if someone were to have a floorstanding speaker with a +10 dB bass shelf (in an anechoic room), everyone would consider that an incredibly bassy speaker. But on headphones, a +10 dB bass shelf would not be considered as bassy as a speaker with that same shelf due to the pressure wave only interacting with the ears and parts of the head. And on IEMs, having a +10 dB bass shelf is considered normal and within the bounds of neutral because it only interacts with the eardrum and parts of the ear canal.

 

[Ciggavelli]

That can’t be 8k… can it? Gaming or you are running ANN on the side?

It can. It adds up quickly. Just gaming.

 

[ThanatosVI]

For me the Susvara/TC wall doesn't even exist.
Imo the Solitaire P crushed them both, I also prefer Meze Elite and DCA Expanse over them.

It's just a matter of taste really.

The Raal was very original in that it doesn't even have earcups. That's a unique development at least. To me that came with more cost than benefit tho

 

[Whazzzup]

Mez yup that’s preference. No one said the flagships whether it’s abyss, senn, focal, hifi man etc etc are better than any others new flagship, of course ribbons, and various variations offered which may or may not be preffered. Audio goes through these multi decade plateaus before, and is now. Of course new features and lower prices will distract us ( baring inflation, tarriffs) I’ll caveat iem seem an endless ability to put drivers in small spaces if that’s flagship

 

[Malcyg]

At some point, we're gonna have to say "no."

That is most definitely true, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, unfortunately, you are probably among the least likely.

 

[HiFiWar]

Anybody find V-shape FR suits IEMs so frigging fantastic while the same for headphones sounds like crap?

I have quite a few full-size headphones that have a bass boost and sound great. Even the $500 SJY Moonlight can pull that off.