[Skylab]

I've been to Brussels several times. I like Leffe. A lot

 

[AppleheadMay]

Leffe isn't bad, a bit stronger than the normal "pils" or "pintje" as we call it here (like Bud, but then with alcohol

 )
Duvel is something you need to try, you should be able to find that in the States.
Omer is better (was awarded best Belgian beer in 2010) but you won't find that outside of Belgium I think.
Closest thing to Omer you will be able to find in the States is Westmalle, make sure you get the blonde "triple" version, nice strong taste.
And the very, very best is "West-Vleteren" which is still made by monks in an abbey about 20km from where I live and is so limited it takes me about a year to get 1 case of it. It's only available straight from the abbey, you have to call them on Monday morning and the line is always so busy it literally takes many months before you get in. If you were lucky enough to order a case you have to go pick it up the same day with your car and you can only get 1 case per license plate. Unobtanium as they call it.
 
Now on topic ... I have been mailing the guys about the 2330 and 990 but they don't seam very eager to respond. I don't give up easily though.  

 

[AppleheadMay]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Marantz SM-6 and SC-6 Esotec combo?
 

 

[5aces]

Getting into a rarefied atmosphere where not many units were sold in the market conditions of the day.

Service may be more challenging when it is required.

I would stay in the 1970's,unless you are getting a screaming deal on that series.

Depends on your comfort level and where you would turn if it smells funny one day.

Odd as it may seem,there is more of a cult following for the 70's gear and parts availability for certain models...

 

[AppleheadMay]

Wouldn't be a screaming deal, no. There's a tuner listed with it on eBay and all three are separate listings so one will have to bid quite high on all three to get the whole setup I can imagine.

 

[5aces]

Marantz Model 20 Tuner
Model 3300 Preamplifier
Model 15 Amplifier
Model 250/500/510 Amplifier

The '2200' Marantz receivers became one of the most successful product offerings in the history of consumer electronics.
Stalk one of those,if you need more power get one of the amps above and run it from the receivers pre out...
These are my 70's Marantz favorites,you might differ.

 

[AppleheadMay]

Very nice gear as well. But I think I'll stick to trying to get the 2330 or 990.
Just came across those Esotec on eBay last night.

 

[AppleheadMay]

Hmm, I just came across a mint pair of these which I always loved but couldn't buy at the time:
Lo and behold, the Infinity Renaissance 90.
 

 
 
 
Yes, I did read BlackBeardBen's review here on HF already, which makes me wonder ... how much vintage grunt will these babies need?
Are we talking about the 2330, 2385 or are we heading straight to the 2500 / 2600 category?
If I am not mistaken, the 2500 and 2600 fall in the 3k$ category, right?

 

[Skylab]

The 2500 will be in the $3K territory - a 2600, if you could even find one, would likely cost much more.

I love the look of those big Infinities and I bet they sound awesome, but with a "nominal" 4 ohm impedance and 87db efficiency I wouldn't think they would be a great match for any vintage receiver. Those EMIT based Infiniies often dropped to below 2 ohms. They are a problematic load for sure.

 

[5aces]

Nice little thread here 4 ohm loads

I have not owned the Ren 90's but with that impedance dip they will work an amplifier hard if you rock out.
I'd hook my Sansui AU 20000 up to them no sweat,just put my whisper fan on top to suck the heat out.
For clean transients, which are necessary if you want your music to sound LIVE, you need power.
The more the merrier !

 

[AppleheadMay]

Thanks for the info Skylab and 5aces.
I'll read that thread link on 4 Ohm loads in a few.
 
But since you know how this impedance/watt/dB/ampere stuff relates I have a related question, but not related to vintage gear:
 
The upcoming Marantz PM-11S3, equal in specs to the PM-11S2, which of these speakers would it be able to drive well: B&W 802, 803, 804 ?
I have heard all the Marantz PM series amps play with all these speakers but the amp I heard least was the PM11 and it's been a while.
I also always get the impression that the closer the maximum power of an amp is to the maximum handling of the speaker, the better I like the sound, it seems somehow fuller to me. Could be brain burn-in though.






EDIT:
The 2330 went for 850€ on eBay, I didn't get it.
Finally got a reply on the Sansui 990 but it isn't in the best of shape and has never been serviced.
Nobody seems to be bidding on it as well.

 

[buson160man]

 I have recently joined the brotherhood of vintage receiver owners. I have been following threads pertaining to vintage receivers for some time. I have a set of lcd 2 v2s which I have not been using very much for the last year. I know they sound good but with a lot of the dedicated headphone amps that I have or have heard that do not cost a kings ransom they just do not provide a sound that makes me really stand up and pay attention. So I decided to start looking at some of the vintage receivers available locally in the local repair and stereo emporiums that sell them.
  I saw a couple, a pioneer sx 1050 (at least that was I thought the model was) and  a sansuii 9090db. The sansuii had some distress on the wooden cabinet. I talked with the shops owner about auditioning them with my lcd2 phones which I had brought with me. But the shop was so crowded with used equipment(the shop was not that big) that he stated that the only unit he could let me try was the sansuii.  I inquired if the units had been recapped and the owner said that that did not make any difference in the performance of the units. The price for the units were approximately around
 450 usd (Not to shabby I thought) but after what he had said about the units not sounding any different after recapping I thought that I would look at some other shop or store.
    I went to another store this time a regular stereo store that sells used vintage equipment. They had a decent selection of receivers but nothing that really stood out. I let the sales person know that I was looking for a good vintage receiver. The salesman said they were evaluating a vintage concept 16.5 receiver for possible purchase . I let the salesman know I was interested and he said he would give me the first crack at it if they did buy the unit. Well about a week later the salesperson called back and said they bought the unit. So I packed up my lcd2s and went to the store to listen.
   When I got there the salesman went downstairs to get the receiver to hook up. The salesman came struggling up the stairs under the weight of this monster. He wrestled the unit in place at the top of an equipment rack and fired it up. My initial impression did not bowl me over. Of course the unit was cold. I played a couple of cds that I had brought for auditioning but I was still not exactly brimming with confidence about buying the unit. I was also starting to sweat a bit the lcd2s are not the lightest and coolest headphones to listen to those leather pads do make you sweat after a while. So the salesman switched over to a pair od kef speakers he had hooked up for listening. I played another cd or two and the kef speakers were actually sounding pretty good. I played another cd and I was surprised at how open the kefs sounded with a soundstage that projected beyond the outer edge of the speakers and there was also a decent presentation of stage height as well.
   Well I thought the unit sufficiently warmed up to switch back to the lcd2. I had also dryed off by now. Well I plugged the lcd2s in let it rip. Know the lcd2s were sounding a bit more promising.
Not perfect but more promising. I inquired if the store recapped the unit and they said they had not done the recap.
  Well decision time I had done some research on the unit on the net and the going price for a unit in decent condition was around a grand. The store wanted 999.99 so I decided to buy it.
   I had it delivered to save my back this unit weighs in at a clumsy 67 pounds. Most of that weight is toward the back where the power supply section is of course. The back end weight make this monster kind of clumsy  to cart about. Well they finally delivered the unit about a week later.
  I hooked it up and started listening to the concept. My I initial impressions were mixed. There was plenty of power but the presentation seemed kind of two dimensional. I thought that after the recap that the unit was not played very much and that the caps were not yet fleshed in. So I played the unit for about a couple of hours a day for a week. Things are starting to sound a bit more spacious so I was probably right about the break in process. The power on hand is enormous. I can not listen to this monster at any level above nine o clock it is just to loud to listen to safely.
   I have never heard a dedicated headphone amp save perhaps the ray samuels dark star that has this much power.
 I think I have made the right decision I doubt I could get any at least new dedicated amps for a grand that has anywhere near this kind of power.
   At some point I would like to have someone upgrade at least some of the parts in the concept 16.5 at least ones that make the most difference. Maybe some film caps in strategic areas that make the most sonic differences. We shall see but I do not look forward to carting around this monster anywhere it is real chore. I do not want to drop this sucker it would probably  be catastrophic.
   Well time for some more listening.

 

[buson160man]

 Well I have put some time on my concept 16.5  And my assumption that the unit was not broken in from the recap was correct . The sonics have improved a pretty fair amount in the last week .
I am very much smitten by the musicality that this receiver is developing . That is there is a musical clarity to the sound that is becoming very beguiling .My akg 701 phones sound so good now in a way that I ever heard from them before . And I have had them for years and put tons of time on them much more than on any of my other headphones . I have to say that these phones have been maligned by a lot of people over the years but at least for me I have been time after time amazed at the abilities of this headphone .
   The sound of instruments is amazingly well produced in such a relaxed matter that I am just drawn into the performance . There just is no sense of strain at even the highest levels that I dare listen at .  The nine oclock position is the loudest I can listen at a safe level and this puppy just loafs at that level . The heat sinks never  get even mildly warm after a few hours of use .
    I am  going to have to do some comparisons with my ray samuels raptor and my burson ha160 dedicated amps when I feel the receiver is pretty much broken in from the recap . I think at this stage I would have to put my money on the 16.5 in the long run. I love the raptor but while it does drive the akgs pretty well the concept just has a sense of power when playing cds that most of the headphone amps that I have heard including a fair amount of really expensive ones can match . I guess there is something to be said for horsepower that is well done even a design that is thirty four years old .
   Speaking of thirty four years old I wonder what the concept 16.5 would cost if it were made today? I am sure it would most assuredly be prohibitively expensive at least for me .