[ProtegeManiac]

 
Also VERY IMPORTANT: just because a school costs $60,000 a year, that does not mean you won't be able to afford it. Financial aid is available based on your family's ability to pay, and there is also "merit-based" financial aid that is given to students with various traits the school is looking for. Too many kids never apply to the most prestigious, most expensive schools because they just assume they can't afford it. When I worked in admission, I explained to parents and high school students many times that the school I worked for (which currently costs > $61,000 a year) would actually be cheaper for them than attending their local community college.

 
 

This is very true - many top level schools have their own endowment funds just for these, and you don't necessarily have to be a straight A student to qualify. In the school I attended here, which is an entire system from 1st Grade all the way to PhD, Law and Medicine under the Jesuits (that basically means they won't burn you at the stake for advocating birth control), regular students pay a lot of money, but a chunk of that goes into scholarships to subsidize other students and as well as funding the recruitment system. We send out high schoolers to do tutor/mentor students in low income areas* and that's where we recruit the next batch of students that we will take into the school for free and they're only required to maintain a B average to boot. Heck, even some parents volunteer to take over some students' tuition fees and their allowance (usually one in the same homeroom class as their own kid) and that frees up one more slot for another scholar.


*lo and behold, sometimes we actually get shocked that there are a lot of students there who are surprisingly more well-off, except our parents would rather pay tuition at our school than have several gaming consoles and huge TVs

 

[billybob_jcv]

Hmm - I suppose I would ask: What are you really trying to do? What are your true goals AFTER you get out of school? Does your desired career path actually need a Master's degree? Or, would a PhD actually be needed? Or, maybe an MBA?

IMHO (with over 20 years as a hiring manager in IT), in the "real world" of engineering and IT (meaning outside of academia) no one really cares what school you went to. Oh sure, we look at the school on your resume, but it's really just to see if your degree is actually related to the job you are applying for, and that it doesn't say you got your degree in 1967. We're also looking to see if you went to the same school we went to - but if you didn't, that's OK - it doesn't really matter.

Quite frankly, what matters much more (at least to me) is what you did with your time in school. Do you have a plan? Are there things you want to do? And, do you know how what you want do matches with what I need? I have had kids spend 10 minutes telling me how they really loved working with a specific tech and that they are looking for a company that uses that tech. We don't, and it's a tech that wasn't listed in the job advertisement, so I guess the interview is over...

The bottom line is that your attitude and your accomplishments mean much more than what school's name is on your diploma. Big name schools are great and smaller schools can be great too. They each offer much different sets of experiences. Some kids prefer one of the other, and some kids will succeed either way.

 

[tomscy2000]

   You might want to do so research as this is an important life decision but in general you do not start over. Transferring is ok at anytime. But you might not have the required prerequisites for MIT(not an Ivy League school btw) so they might not accept you into the masters program because of that. You should get a course list/flow chart for everything you will take and call an advisor from MIT to see if it meets minimum requirements. Just so you know aim for Caltech everyone in the know says caltech>mit although both are very tough schools to get in.

 

 

  (not an Ivy League school btw).

 
Its not? Doesn't "Ivy league " just mean that tuition cost like $40000 and is a one of the best schools? Is MIT "not" one of the best schools?

  USC is more than 40k and not an Ivy League school. Mit is a great school but caltech is better IMO. But seriously you need to do a lot more research this is all info a prospective student should be well versed in.

 
Yes. OP needs to do more research into what the requirements are. But there is absolutely no need to "start over" and nothing is impossible.
 
Going from CSULA to MIT for grad school is absolutely doable, and I'm sure there are precedents. However, I won't sugarcoat it --- it will be very difficult. The student that manages this feat HAS to be an academic stud, meaning near perfect grades in all classes major-related or not. For example, you won't get the benefit of the doubt for messing around in a literature class when you're a comp sci major.
 
Beyond getting really great grades and a stellar GRE score, you need to be a standout in whatever you're studying. If it's comp sci, you're hopefully doing research on the side. CSULA is right at the end of the 710 freeway, meaning you're a 15 min. drive away from both USC and Caltech, and a traffic-ridden 10/405 away from UCLA. If you're persistent enough (send very polite e-mails to professors to show your initiative and self-motivation in identifying research fields that you're interested in), at least one of the faculty members from at least one of these schools will be willing to mentor you, if they sense you're motivated enough. If you're unable to get something going during the school year, many schools hold summer undergraduate fellowship programs that are essentially 10-week research oriented programs that allow you to hook up with a lab. There is an application process, and many are fairly competitive, but relaxed enough such that if you have a well-directed goal (the applications will ask you to describe your research interests, often allowing you to name a specific lab and what they're doing there), most places are willing to give you a chance.
 
If research isn't your thing, look for interships that actually involve getting into coding, paid or unpaid. Large corporations have debugging and vulnerability reward programs. Several an obscure (but promising) coders from overseas have won themselves nice interships with companies like Google and Facebook by detecting bugs in their code and notifying them of those vulnerabilities.
 

  And on the "Ivy League" discussion, I always thought the term applied to the elite private schools (that easily come off as "snobby"). Private doesn't immediately mean "Ivy" either, but you're going to see a lot of kids from rich families at such schools.

 
Definitively, the Ivy League is just an association of schools, like the ACC or Pac-12. They happen to be a few of the oldest schools in the nation, and thus, over time, have accrued massive school endowments and academic achievements, earning them the reputation of being the "best" schools in the nation and around the world.
 
However, Ivy League schools are not "full of rich kids". That is a widespread misconception and a bit of an archaism stemming from the fact that in the past, only the rich could attend good colleges. Are there spoiled rich kids who got in mostly because daddy has his name on one or several of the buildings on campus? Absolutely. But the vast majority of them are also relatively smart and self-motivated rich kids. The real makeup of Ivy League students comprises students from middle to upper-middle class backgrounds whose parents are well-educated. If those students are taken to be "snobby" and "elite", then so be it, but most of them did not attend Philips-Exeter or some other elite boarding school on the eastern seaboard.
 

   
x10.  Don't get hung up about Ivy Leagues.  Most on are on the east coast and it gets damn cold and miserable in the winter. There are many super great schools in your state (Berkley, Standford...etc).  My personal experience is that it's easier to get the MA from a BA if you go through the same school, if possible.  If not, no matter what graduate school you choose, you need to seek and conquer the requirements and keep abreast to any changes.  Bare in mind, there is no guarantee you'll get in despite the grades, scores, affiliation, and money.

 I'm biased.  MIT is better, Caltech is a great school. 

 
Not always. The top schools actually encourage students to apply to other programs for masters, so that students get a more diverse experience. Staying at the same school ends up being a "fallback" option if they don't end up being selected to the programs they applied for.

Is it "easier" to get a masters from the same school you received your bachelors in? Yes. But that's only because you already know existing faculty and understand their academic concentrations.
 

  It depends on you...after the bachelor program, you will need to take the GRE for a master/PhD program.  It will depend on your GRE score and undergrad gpa for admission.  Top notch schools are competitive so they require a lot.  But grad schools are not as competitive as undergrad...(it's easier to get into MIT grad than MIT undergrad, in engineering field)  
 
Cal State tends to lean toward practicality and hands-on experience.  UC system leans toward theories and abstractions (which good foundations for graduate preparation).  But my experience, it all depends on you.  I did a few years at SDSU and then transferred to UCLA for the rest of undergrad and then grad school for an engineering master.  You can get much higher gpa at csu schools for transfer later than start at UC schools (too many smart ppl).

 
It's not necessarily easier to get into grad school at MIT than for undergrad. The statistics will say that the admission rates are higher, but programs are self-selective with regard to their applicant pool already. Grad school slots can easily go underfilled if departments feel the applying student body isn't qualified enough.
 

  I worked in higher ed admissions for more than 10 years and can tell you that most of the advice you've received is sound. Just to echo a bit: you won't have to start over if you complete an accredited bachelor's degree program. You will have to take the GRE and have a very high GPA to get into the likes of MIT or Caltech. If the college you choose for your bachelor's degree has a decent program, the faculty there will know what graduate schools expect and the major will be designed to get you into a good graduate school. In addition to your GRE scores and grades, recommendations from faculty members in your major will be extremely important.  Admissions, unfortunately, is often "clubby." What I mean by this is that decisions are made in part by connections: if you come from a school where lots of kids apply to the master's program you want to get into, the admissions office will have a good sense of what a "B" student is capable of, and your professors will probably know a fair number of the faculty of the master's program. If your bachelor's degree program isn't well known, the admissions office will unfortunately assume that a "B" student isn't as good as one from the better known school, and may not know any faculty there either.
 
I also encourage you to start your research now, and talk to a guidance counselor about which schools you might be able to get into. If they are not the very best, don't worry. The best kept secret is that most colleges and universities can provide an excellent education to a motivated student. If you show real interest and passion for the subjects in your major, stick around to ask additional questions after class, and visit professors during their office hours, they will take you under their wing and do everything they can to help you succeed. One good way to evaluate if a school can provide you this is to look at the percentage of the faculty that is full-time. Adjunct faculty members have no incentive to invest additional time outside of teaching their classes. Also remember that many big universities have graduate students teaching the undergraduates, so it's important to find out how much the faculty actually teach. A small school is often a better choice because you will be taught by professors.
 
Also VERY IMPORTANT: just because a school costs $60,000 a year, that does not mean you won't be able to afford it. Financial aid is available based on your family's ability to pay, and there is also "merit-based" financial aid that is given to students with various traits the school is looking for. Too many kids never apply to the most prestigious, most expensive schools because they just assume they can't afford it. When I worked in admission, I explained to parents and high school students many times that the school I worked for (which currently costs > $61,000 a year) would actually be cheaper for them than attending their local community college.
 
Good luck. Keep asking questions.

 
Yes. Schools do tend to be "clubby".
 
Usually what happens is that if you have done research with a prof in the past, and that prof knows a prof because they've collaborated before (specific research fields are a small community), they get on the phone and do a dial-a-thon, and say, "Hey, I've got a student, Poindexter McSmart here, and he's been with my lab for the past three years ---- great kid. Well, he's considering applying to your school, and I told him that you'd be a great mentor for him! He has some great ideas in this field, and he's ready to fly over to meet you anytime. You mind pulling his application out and sparing some time with him to see if he's a good fit?"
 
Of course, since Prof. A and Prof. B have mutual respect for each other, Prof. B is far more likely to accept Poindexter McSmart on the fact that he was Prof. A's student for three years and has been doing work related to his fields of interest. The student from random school C, with similar grades or better, may not get the kind of shakedown he deserves.
 
However, they do look at all applicants, and usually this happens in a committee. The department gets together and takes a look at what applications they've received so far (many programs have rolling admissions). If a student is an academic stud, then of course they'll look very closely and might even get into a bidding war, depending on how much grant money a certain lab has, lab vacancies (graduating students, post-docs leaving, first-years failing their quals and flaming out, etc.), and more.
 
That's why it's important to stand out. A great recommendation from a faculty member will stand out, and that's why it's important to get to know your teachers, and ask them questions. They will notice your improvement from (possibly) a clueless urchin to a sagacious being and their recommendation of you will reflect that evolution.
 

Hmm - I suppose I would ask: What are you really trying to do? What are your true goals AFTER you get out of school? Does your desired career path actually need a Master's degree? Or, would a PhD actually be needed? Or, maybe an MBA?

IMHO (with over 20 years as a hiring manager in IT), in the "real world" of engineering and IT (meaning outside of academia) no one really cares what school you went to. Oh sure, we look at the school on your resume, but it's really just to see if your degree is actually related to the job you are applying for, and that it doesn't say you got your degree in 1967. We're also looking to see if you went to the same school we went to - but if you didn't, that's OK - it doesn't really matter.

Quite frankly, what matters much more (at least to me) is what you did with your time in school. Do you have a plan? Are there things you want to do? And, do you know how what you want do matches with what I need? I have had kids spend 10 minutes telling me how they really loved working with a specific tech and that they are looking for a company that uses that tech. We don't, and it's a tech that wasn't listed in the job advertisement, so I guess the interview is over...

The bottom line is that your attitude and your accomplishments mean much more than what school's name is on your diploma. Big name schools are great and smaller schools can be great too. They each offer much different sets of experiences. Some kids prefer one of the other, and some kids will succeed either way.

 
These are great questions to ask. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to ask a high school student these questions without grooming their thought processes in the right direction from a young age. Most high schoolers are clueless about what they want to do.
 
That's why it's important that we still have broad-based fundamental education; it just needs to be taught the right way (which is where America is failing in).
 

---

 
For the people debating between Caltech and MIT, claims of one school being superior to the other mostly stem from cheeky trash talk. The reality of it is that the two schools have their own respective strengths --- neither one is "better", and undergraduate students from the two schools often attend the other one for grad school. Caltech's strength lies in its freedom to allow extremely deep exploration of fundamental, conceptual knowledge within a small, closely-knit environment; MIT has a more diverse student body and is able to take fundamental knowledge and apply it in a rigorous manner to many things. However, both schools are very rigorous when it comes to scientific approach, and that's why they have the reputations that they have.
 

---

 
@grimzz R: So no, it's not impossible to get into a school like MIT from a CSULA, but it will be difficult, and you'll have to be extremely goal-oriented from the moment you step foot on campus. At the end of the day, consistent improvement is what you're looking for in yourself, and when you constantly work toward that goal, whether it's learning by yourself off an MOOC, pestering TAs to help you get a certain concept stamped down, scouring the internet for internships or research fellowships --- if you can look yourself in the mirror and be satisfied with the effort you're putting in, it really doesn't matter where you go to school --- you will eventually become a success.

 

[Mayordean]

Lots of good insight and advice in this latest post. I want to underscore the last: a good, broad based education.
 
Most of your classes will be outside your major. Take advantage of these rather than going for the easiest. Ultimately, you will succeed not because you learned the basics of your field a bit better than other students, but because you learned how to think and communicate. You will use these less tangible skills your entire life--and it can be the difference between being a drone who knows how to do one thing well and a creator who can imagine new solutions to problems.

 

[billybob_jcv]

I think you take it one step at a time. At each step, you make the best decision you can with the information you have. I suspect there must be a reason the OP is asking about the rather unusual route of a CSU to MIT. If the CSU is the best decision for you for your undergrad, then that's fine - do that. If you *can* get to a school like MIT as an undergrad - then, heck, why not? Is it the money? OK - if so, you could always apply to MIT and if you are accepted, work with the financial aid folks to try to build you a package. If it can't happen, then at least you tried. Either way, just do the best you can do. If money is the problem, it might also be a problem 4 years from now when you want to go to grad school. If it is, that's OK, just go wherever you can go. Do the best you can do!

PS: I'm CSU grad - I've done OK - not Audeze-level OK, but still OK...