Studio Audio Interfaces vs 'consumer' DACs

[pazuwu]

Interfaces have a built in preamp output, and balanced too, for studio monitors. Even the 2i4 has that. No audiophile product has that anywhere near the 2i4's price point.

Yeah, exactly: balanced outputs and the low(er) price was what made me consider audio interfaces in the beginning, but then I wondered if they sound bad, which led to this post. Of course, audiophile products have some other features that I'd like to have (the async USB communication thingie, for instance, or better noise filtering), which I haven't seen mentioned for audio interfaces.

Obviously, I want best of both worlds, cheap(er) and with the quality of a thousand $$ product (well, I'm joking, but I wish that'd be possible).

Wanted to thank you guys for the replies, I've a better understanding of things now!

 

[Music Alchemist]

I initially thought you were looking for something cheap...but if your budget is that high and you want something that can drive nearly any headphone as well as be used as a DAC/preamp for speakers, I'd go for the Chord Mojo. (I owned it twice and adore it.)

I used that UCA202 to output optical TOSLINK to the Mojo, which electrically isolates it, so you shouldn't have to worry about computer noise. The Mojo may filter the noise from your computer via USB anyway, but it's difficult to predict.

I also used a 5V 2A micro USB wall charger to keep the Mojo (which has a battery) on permanent charge.

 

[theveterans]

Yeah, exactly: balanced outputs and the low(er) price was what made me consider audio interfaces in the beginning, but then I wondered if they sound bad, which led to this post. Of course, audiophile products have some other features that I'd like to have (the async USB communication thingie, for instance, or better noise filtering), which I haven't seen mentioned for audio interfaces.

I'm going to make some assumptions on my statements below.

Many DAW software use USB audio interface with low latency transmission through ASIO. I would assume therefore that the clocks used in the transmission (either through ADC or DAC) are the clocks (far more precise especially for audio recording and playback) from the audio interface not the one determined by computer bus as the bus speed of computer dynamically changes.

Noise filtering can vary from DACs and interfaces. Focusrite RedNet audio interfaces have a much more effective way of reducing this through Ethernet protocol (USB noise is far more vulnerable from what I read). As for a simpler way, Music Alchemist mentioned using optical fiber (TOSLINK). To me as a compromise, if you believe you get electrical chirping noise from your computer especially when you drastically increase its CPU usage or GPU usage, you can isolate it using something like Wyred 4 Sound Recovery between your computer and your USB audio interface/DAC.

 

[pazuwu]

I initially thought you were looking for something cheap...but if your budget is that high and you want something that can drive nearly any headphone as well as be used as a DAC/preamp for speakers, I'd go for the Chord Mojo. (I owned it twice and adore it.)

~500€ is my upper limit, which I'd rather avoid reaching, because then I'll probably feel bad about spending money on stuff I don't really need. Unless maybe I find some really amazing device (probably at a discount), so that 500€ for it feels like a rip-off

I've heard very good things about the Chord Mojo, but honestly I don't think I can get over the look... I find it kinda ugly.

 

[Music Alchemist]

~500€ is my upper limit, which I'd rather avoid reaching, because then I'll probably feel bad about spending money on stuff I don't really need. Unless maybe I find some really amazing device (probably at a discount), so that 500€ for it feels like a rip-off

I've heard very good things about the Chord Mojo, but honestly I don't think I can get over the look... I find it kinda ugly.

FYI, used ones are available for $400 USD or less.

What would constitute "really amazing"?

If you like, I could lay out the ways the Mojo is technically superior...but I'll refrain for now. (Don't want to make it seem like I'm trying to turn this into a Chord fan thread. lol)

Aesthetics are subjective. I think it looks gorgeous.

 

[AugustLeaves]

Focusrite Clarett 2pre / Chord Mojo user here. While Clarett is a hell of an interface (does its job Excellent on my AKG C214 for voicing), its output powers are somewhat limited. Of course it handles my Sony MDR-1A without any difficulties, but only struggles to squeeze the bass out of the HD800 (

Oh ) And Mojo is Magical, Not ugly. Doing the amping WAAY better than Clarett ) But well aesthetics are strictly individual, so only an IMO here )

 

[pazuwu]

What would constitute "really amazing"?

In the context, an Audioquest M-DAC+ for 500€ would be really amazing Obviously, I'm being subjective, same as I am when I say the Mojo is not... pretty looking.

 

[Music Alchemist]

In the context, an Audioquest M-DAC+ for 500€ would be really amazing

I'm pretty sure the Mojo measures better in every way.

 

[Adamsolympia]

I just installed my newly purchased MOTU Ultralite Mk4 studio interface - and I have to say, I'm beyond impressed with the sound quality. It far surpasses any "audiophile" headphone amps I've used so far with my Senn HD600s, with enough power to properly drive them. Then again, it's not all that surprising - it uses the same dac as many high end units, ESS Sabre 32-bit. I've spent maybe $300 or so for some of the lower end Schiit dac/amps and this studio interface is in the $600 range. I'd be interested to hear how it compares to some $600 - $1000+ consumer dac/amps.

Went with MOTU for the IO, low latency and other features to use in Ableton & Reason, but it's definitely a nice bonus to be able to declutter my studio and get rid of my old gear. Now off to find a buyer for my Modi 2/Vali 2, Fulla 1 and Komplete Audio 6 (great gear but completely redundant now)

 

[Xyrium]

MOTU was probably a good choice. I have the Clarett 4pre USB, and the headphone outs can't drive my Beyer DT880 600 Ohms cans at all. During troubleshooting of the low output, Focusrite told me that I need to go buy a headphone amp. Meanwhile, both my guitar processor and my e-drum kit module can drive my Beyers without a problem.

I almost bought the MOTU 624, and now I'm past the return period for the Clarett, so I'm kinda stuck. Let us know how the MOTU works out!

 

[Adamsolympia]

MOTU was probably a good choice. I have the Clarett 4pre USB, and the headphone outs can't drive my Beyer DT880 600 Ohms cans at all. During troubleshooting of the low output, Focusrite told me that I need to go buy a headphone amp. Meanwhile, both my guitar processor and my e-drum kit module can drive my Beyers without a problem.

I almost bought the MOTU 624, and now I'm past the return period for the Clarett, so I'm kinda stuck. Let us know how the MOTU works out!

The MOTU exceeded my expectations for sure. It won out between the 3 interfaces I had been considering - UAD Apollo Twin Duo and RME Babyface 2. The onboard compressor, EQ, filter and reverb is every bit as good or better than any of my VSTs -- very helpful offloading precious CPU cycles to its DSP.
Looking at the tech specs, it seems the headphone amp is 80mw -- which is a little less than I would have guessed from my early listening tests. This, compared to the Schiit Vali 2: "Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 270mW RMS per channel" seems a little on the light side. After more thorough testing, it does seem to lack a little punch on the low end. It's an extremely detailed and clean signal though, first time I've heard a signal with so much clarity. I may look into adding a headphone amp into the mix -- one that would be better suited for music production than the Vali 2 - which is a fairly neutral sounding tube hybrid as far as tube hybrids go, but I wouldn't want to add any coloration to the signal what-so-ever.

I was looking for the power rating on your 4pre and couldn't find anything concrete. I did notice that it was going for close to $500 used on Reverb, which might be an option for you if you ever want to trade in for something that's better suited for your headphones.

 

[PaganDL]

Hi Pazuwu,

Let me be clear, while I could go on a rant I'm certainly not going to as it would be a waste of time & words...
I will just sum it up & say there is a clear misunderstanding among many in the community on what constitutes the thread topic.

Like ProtegeManiac & some others here have already said, depending on your requirements, it is up to you to decide as they are basically the same though in terms of usage and components, audio interfaces do lean towards being the 'better' option but this is also a personal & highly subjective opinion. Sound quality is a relative thing & the only way you yourself are going to know is do lots of demos.
Most if not all pro audio places are keen to have people demo equipment & are far more knowledgable than an average hifi or audio shop as those in pro audio places generally work in the industry in some capacity.
Keep in mind, audio interfaces as equipment have been around a lot longer than DACs by themselves and are the go to for any sound creation &/or production, not just music, not to mention DSP & other useful functions are far more capable & better designed than consumer grade, as well as being more cost effective & value for money. The list goes on but I will stop there.
I myself am still using the Lexicon Alpha which is almost 20 years old by now but it is still going strong, not to mention built like a tank though while it would be nice to change I see no real need to at present.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Xyrium]

The MOTU exceeded my expectations for sure. It won out between the 3 interfaces I had been considering - UAD Apollo Twin Duo and RME Babyface 2. The onboard compressor, EQ, filter and reverb is every bit as good or better than any of my VSTs -- very helpful offloading precious CPU cycles to its DSP.
Looking at the tech specs, it seems the headphone amp is 80mw -- which is a little less than I would have guessed from my early listening tests. This, compared to the Schiit Vali 2: "Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 270mW RMS per channel" seems a little on the light side. After more thorough testing, it does seem to lack a little punch on the low end. It's an extremely detailed and clean signal though, first time I've heard a signal with so much clarity. I may look into adding a headphone amp into the mix -- one that would be better suited for music production than the Vali 2 - which is a fairly neutral sounding tube hybrid as far as tube hybrids go, but I wouldn't want to add any coloration to the signal what-so-ever.

I was looking for the power rating on your 4pre and couldn't find anything concrete. I did notice that it was going for close to $500 used on Reverb, which might be an option for you if you ever want to trade in for something that's better suited for your headphones.

That's some great info Adam'! I ended up ordering a Topping A30 to give my Beyers the kick they need. However, I am definitely not pleased with the oversight that Focusrite committed here. Having the ability to monitor a mix is extremely important, integral to the recording process. For many home studio users, the expectations it that an interface manufacturer should be able to integrate a head amp with at least enough power to feed a fairly demanding headphone, and I don't even consider the Beyer 880 /600 to be that demanding from a phase angle perspective, it just needs a good voltage source.

Anyway, I digress, that Motu is now back in my sights. Thanks for your input!

 

[TheLastZealot]

Im not so impressed with my PreSonus AudioBox 22VSL. I mean, this little thing is great for some recording, it does the audio interface job very well. But the sound coming out from my AKG Q701 is kinda dry. The studio monitors sounds amazing tho

I think I need at least a non-USB powered interface to have a decent headphone AMP in it. The USB power alone is not gonna cut it.

Looking to upgrade my interface that can do both recording and HiFi headphone listening. Been eyeing for a Senn HD800, but I don't think my interface can drive it well.

Any opinions for a set-up like:
Computer - Interface - headphone AMP - headphone?

 

[Xyrium]

Whatever you do, don't hook up an amp to the headphone output of your interface. You don't want to reamp that signal. Ideally, you'll use a pair of standard preouts. Several inexpensive headamps worth considering, even some of the portable units can be plugged into USB power and run as a permanent fixture. I have a Fiio A5 and E12a, one for higher impedance cans, and the E12a for more sensitive and lower impedance IEMs. They hang off of outputs 3 and 4 of my Clarett 4Pre and sound excellent. Another less ambitious but excellent sounding solution has been the Objective 2, probably high gain for the 800s. Those are inexpensive solutions, which sound excellent, but there are much higher end options if that's what you seek.

A solid midrange solution is the THX AAA 789 on Massdrop. It has both Single Ended and Balanced inputs and outputs. Amazing quality for the price https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier This is probably what I would consider if I was buying the 800s. It puts out more power into their 300Ohm rating in balanced mode than they are even capable of handling (the 800s are rated for 500mW max power)

https://assets.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/6582/HD800_HD800S_Manual_01_2016_EN.pdf.