[Nugget]

Like it says, I've just moved into a duplex with some ancient wiring. No ground except in the kitchen and bathroom (i.e. where the landlord was required by law to upgrade), and the lights dim every time my neighbor's laundry machine kicks on. Not great for audio.

I'm not paying to run a grounded conduit to the office/listening station, mostly on the philosophical grounds that I won't improve somebody else's property for free. So here's my ghetto idea: running a 30' grounded extension cord from an outside hookup into a power conditioner which will run my computer and audio gear. Any problems there I should know about? Any other ideas?

 

[LawnGnome]

Get a UPS.

They are FAR better than anything marketed for audio.

 

[philodox]

I've never found any of the UPS' I've used [APC & Belkin] to work well with audio, but there have been some reports of this being the case. The UPC-200, which is admittedly a very simple power conditioner, is far superior to the UPS' I've tried.

I take it you've used both and prefer your UPS LawnGnome? Which brand/model?

 

[bigshot]

The center screw on the faceplate of the power socket may be grounded. You could run a wire from that screw to your equipment if you're having a ground loop problem.

See ya
Steve

 

[Nugget]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif The center screw on the faceplate of the power socket may be grounded. You could run a wire from that screw to your equipment if you're having a ground loop problem.

I thought that might be the case, but the wiring in this place is older than dirt. The conduits are just fabric-covered copper wire, two strands, no ground at all. I tested it out, no dice.

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never found any of the UPS' I've used [APC & Belkin] to work well with audio, but there have been some reports of this being the case. The UPC-200, which is admittedly a very simple power conditioner, is far superior to the UPS' I've tried. I take it you've used both and prefer your UPS LawnGnome? Which brand/model?

If you had any knowledge of this stuff, you would know the "audiophile" units are only very simple line filters (even high end ones). They use basic schematics and literally have 3$ worth of components.

A line filter won't do a damn thing for brown outs, and it won't protect your gear from surges.

But I guess you feel the need to try to sucker somebody into buy "audiophile" gear that costs tons, and does little.

When he could buy a product for far less, that actually does something real.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you had any knowledge of this stuff

I don't think that is the way to start off your diatribe if you want a civil response from me. What exactly is it that makes you so hostile about this stuff? Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif you would know the "audiophile" units are only very simple line filters (even high end ones). They use basic schematics and literally have 3$ worth of components. A line filter won't do a damn thing for brown outs, and it won't protect your gear from surges.

Sorry, but the units that I have experience with certainly do have surge protection. Line filters can be good for some equipment, but most of the really high end units employ different methods [regeneration, etc]. The UPC-200, which I use and admitted was rather simple in my previous post, does employ some filtration and noise blocking circuitry. This IS actually important for me as I live in a condo building that has horrible power. Each switching power supply in the building feeds noise back into the lines, and that adds up. I'm sure you will dismiss what I am saying out of hand, but it genuinely improves the sound of my source which sounds quite a bit worse straight out of the wall.

The unit can be run in high current mode, or dual zone, which I find useful to isolate my digital and analog components.

It also has surge and spike protection. I'm not an advocate for most of PS Audio's products, but I consider the UPC-200 to be pretty good value. Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I guess you feel the need to try to sucker somebody into buy "audiophile" gear that costs tons, and does little. When he could buy a product for far less, that actually does something real.

Excuse me? I'm trying to 'sucker' someone? What would be the point of that? Do you think I have some sort of financial investment in PS Audio? Or, I suppose I am just trying to screw with people and waste their money... what a joke.

Besides the point, the Belkin UPS that I use for my computer was actually more expensive than my power conditioner. I'm not suggesting that he go out and buy a $5000 unit.

What value is a UPS going to add? Certainly I would suggest that he get one for his computer if he wants the added features of emergency battery power and soft shutdown, but these features are both useless for an audio system.

EDIT: Now, this is not to say that there are no poorly designed, cheap, or useless power conditioners out there. That new super expensive Nordost unit looks like a complete joke for instance. There are some good units however, and I have had a good experience with the UPC-200. Considering you can get one for around $200 or so used, I don't consider this to be insanely expensive. While you can definately replicate the circuit for cheaper, the chips they use in their 'power cell' modules are not that easy to come by, and you'd end up likely spending almost as much if you want a case as nice as the one they use.

 

[Tarkovsky]

So are you saying any old cheapo power supply will help my DAC out with a smoother supply noticeably?

 

[Uncle Erik]

1950s wiring is OK. We have some apartments built around then and while knocking out walls and mucking with them, I find the wiring is generally in good shape. A lot of it was run in conduit back then which I find *much* preferable to Romex. The contractor lobby pushed Romex into code just to save a buck; it's not like it's superior or anything. Heck, I don't even think that knob and tube wiring was all that bad.

Anyhow, I don't think running an extension cord from outside is a good, or safe, solution. There are several ways to get a good ground. If you're willing to DIY it, you can always buy a grounding rod ($20-$30) and drive it into the earth yourself. Then run a ground off your socket to the grounding rod. A little doing, but believe me, there is no better ground than a six foot rod driven into the earth.

Also, I don't think your neighbor's washer has much to do with grounding issues. Many of them are 220V units and take a big lump of juice off the line to get started. You'll get a power sag, but it won't hurt your gear. Something like an ordinary computer UPS will prevent a sag. A line filter wouldn't hurt, but the washer is like when you turn on the A/C in your car. You can feel the compressor pull some power off the engine. Same thing with the washer pulling power off the line. A UPS with some batteries in it will smooth that over.

 

[Nugget]

Will a UPS do any good without a ground? I know (or at least think I do...) that surge suppressors work by feeding excess current through to ground, so they just don't do any good without a functional ground.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Power struggle