[itchytoes]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to the forum but have been involved with hifi and the pursuit of the best sound for over 30 years.
Due to moving abroad approx 10 years ago I went from having a 'standard' 2 channel system to headphones and have been successfully running a Chord Hugo and Audeze LCDx system for the past 6 years. However, the batteries on my Hugo now need replacing and so I started to look into what was available, having been out of the hifi trend for so long........

Now I am confused.

My confusion lies not in the headphone / amp / DAC side of things but in the source. Is it really so much better to run from a streamer rather than direct from a laptop? What would give me the best sq? What is the benefit of software such as Audirvana etc, is it a step up from using Tidal alone (I have no local files, just use the streaming service)?

My listening is currently done at my desk so would be controlled from my laptop anyway. However, I would like to understand best practice for a modern computer based system.

Thanks for any help explanations!

 

[msing539]

The best sound quality would generally be from a streamer, since you're not relying on a laptop to pass a clean signal over usb. All the internal components on a laptop generate noise, and it can be audible.

Because I use my laptop for work, Zoom, etc., a streamer just wasn't a seamless solution. I ended up getting a DDC instead and it does the job.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to the forum but have been involved with hifi and the pursuit of the best sound for over 30 years.
Due to moving abroad approx 10 years ago I went from having a 'standard' 2 channel system to headphones and have been successfully running a Chord Hugo and Audeze LCDx system for the past 6 years. However, the batteries on my Hugo now need replacing and so I started to look into what was available, having been out of the hifi trend for so long........

Now I am confused.

My confusion lies not in the headphone / amp / DAC side of things but in the source. Is it really so much better to run from a streamer rather than direct from a laptop? What would give me the best sq? What is the benefit of software such as Audirvana etc, is it a step up from using Tidal alone (I have no local files, just use the streaming service)?

My listening is currently done at my desk so would be controlled from my laptop anyway. However, I would like to understand best practice for a modern computer based system.

Thanks for any help explanations!

If the laptop in question is something like a 12in Macbook or the new M1/M2 Air, then no.

If the laptop in question is something like an MSI GF6x or the older Asus Tuf with the holes not right over the fans and they're using negative pressure to have air pass through the VRMs because they're too cheap to put even a copper shim on those (such that Hardware Unboxed drilling holes right over the fans only lowered the core temps, but can't raise the clock speed because the VRMs in heating up), then the streamer will be better for lack of whuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at idle and worse if you game on it or you're working on anything more intensive than Excel then you get a WHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH instead.

On the digital side...it's up to you. Those Apple laptops may be quiet, but then you need to wire them up to external storage. By contrast maybe if you get an Alienware that will be quiet at idle you can jam a 2TB m.2 in the other slot and have your music in there. If you're using Tidal then it won't matter.

My listening is currently done at my desk so would be controlled from my laptop anyway. However, I would like to understand best practice for a modern computer based system.

Thanks for any help explanations!

Just controlling a dedicated player on a laptop using some kind of app won't really introduce any noise etc. But at least with the correct dedicated player you can either have storage drives inside it or have the external storage right next to it instead of running wires everywhere.

It's up to you really. You'd have to screw something up for there to be a sound quality difference. It has more to do with how you want to use the system.

 

[itchytoes]

Thanks for those replies. So basically if it's a desktop system then direct from my Laptop to the DAC (via USB) should be fine, if it was a traditional system then a streamer would be nice so that it can be operated remotely?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

No PC is optimal for running music players. But you can buy a cheap DDC to see if it makes a difference to you with your setup.

This https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dou...or-an-affordable-clean-digital-signal.958462/ has a lot of fans but read to the end, supposedly there is a better alternative available now on Aliexpress that has good clocks.

 

[itchytoes]

The more I look and research the more confused I get......

It looks like I want a separate DAC (looking at the Chord TT2 as I like my original Hugo's sound a lot and I assume that this would be a major step up in the same general direction) and streamer (or bridge???), this can be controlled via the streamer app or Roon if I want to keep it after a trial run. Either that or just run the DAC / headphone amp direct from my laptop.

However... running direct from a noisy laptop surely cannot be the same as running from a $$$ streamer? I guess that's where my confusion lies. After reading a big stack of reviews on various streaming options it does seem that not all are created equal and I struggle to believe that my multi-purpose laptop is going to operate at the 'high end'.

So I guess the current question is what should I expect to hear from a cheap streamer (ifi Zen maybe) in comparison to an Auralic Aries or similar?

Am I better just buying something like the Naim Uniti Atom HE with everything in one box??

The one box idea just doesn't sit well with me, this is from a totally ignorant stance BTW, it's just that the hifi story was always 'more boxes, higher fidelity' in my time.....

All advice very gratefully received!

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

How about a DAC w/ built in streamer? Say a Gustard R26? Has a growing thread in here and rvery nice eviews on the NET. Have it a look.

With this, you won't need a DDC and a separate streamer.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

However... running direct from a noisy laptop surely cannot be the same as running from a $$$ streamer? I guess that's where my confusion lies. After reading a big stack of reviews on various streaming options it does seem that not all are created equal and I struggle to believe that my multi-purpose laptop is going to operate at the 'high end'.

In terms of electronic noise a laptop can run at the high end tier. The problem is you can't know for sure which laptop that is, which is a problem if you're only just about to buy one. If you already have one, then try that first (along with its internal SSD to figure out if you should get a NAS and fill it with SSDs now), then figure out how to minimize the mechanical noises if you really want to go cheap. Dismount the cooler and use Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut to see if maybe the heatsink has enough surface area as to barely run the fans at low load.
Note : if the laptop is mostly plastic and it still accumulates enough heat on the heatsinks, which is likely if the fans aren't moving enough air (all the liquid metal will do is help pull more air from the CPU and GPU to the cold plate) it may lead to the plastic cracking. Also be careful applying liquid metal - it's conductive and if there were any drops on the board when it's powered on, or if it drops out from between the CPU and heatsink while powered on or ater a prolonged period upright in a bag of some sort, it will kill the board.

If the fan noise is still there then that's when you get a streamer.

So I guess the current question is what should I expect to hear from a cheap streamer (ifi Zen maybe) in comparison to an Auralic Aries or similar?

Am I better just buying something like the Naim Uniti Atom HE with everything in one box??

The one box idea just doesn't sit well with me, this is from a totally ignorant stance BTW, it's just that the hifi story was always 'more boxes, higher fidelity' in my time.....

You're not dealing with a case of not having enough power like in some integrated amps with DACs or phono stages or cheaper hybrid amps (where the tube doesn't get enough voltage) where the quality of the power supply circuit can make too many compromises in the sense that none of those have anything that will require enough power that a decent power brick or power supply design can't handle.

Like did you literally use that one box-one task bit in absolute terms like having several of those Musical Fidelity cylinders plus a CD transport and two monobloc amps? Because if you've used a CD player at least then one-box streamers are basically that. Or even less...you'd have a DAC and not use the analogue output so technically they're more like transports.

Besides having outboard storage creates its own host of configuration problems. You don't use outboard storage just to improve the sound just because it's outboard. It's first made necessary because you need a lot of digital storage space for all your music, and then you have to work your way around that. Noisy HDD? Get SSDs. Noisy HDD cooling? Rip out the fan and see if it still works (it may have a fail safe that prevents it running it it doesn't detect its fan); also don't pack your SSDs tight in there now that there's no active cooling. Alternately you can set it up outside and then run a LAN cable to your streamer. Next you have to configure the streamer to get music from that etc.

 

[itchytoes]

Like did you literally use that one box-one task bit in absolute terms like having several of those Musical Fidelity cylinders plus a CD transport and two monobloc amps? Because if you've used a CD player at least then one-box streamers are basically that. Or even less...you'd have a DAC and not use the analogue output so technically they're more like transports.

That's a very, very good point, I never thought about it like that. The Uniti Atom HE is basically the same as a CD player with a preamp built in. Funny how that makes it more attractive to me......
It's very strange how some of these prejudices can occur with the concept of what 'must' be better sounding due to old school ideals. Especially when dealing with new school technologies.

 

[itchytoes]

I'd rather stay away from the laptop as a source. For the cost of something like the Ifi Zen Streamer (RM2,079 over here so approx USD470 or GBP385) its worth it to me to know that the 'streaming' part is taken care of and isn't being restricted by my crappy laptop....

 

[itchytoes]

How about a DAC w/ built in streamer? Say a Gustard R26? Has a growing thread in here and rvery nice eviews on the NET. Have it a look.

With this, you won't need a DDC and a separate streamer.

Thanks, I'll check that out. Id be happy to go this route (DAC / Streamer to a headphone amp. Happy to go any route if it's simple enough and sounds good!

 

[surfgeorge]

Thanks, I'll check that out. Id be happy to go this route (DAC / Streamer to a headphone amp. Happy to go any route if it's simple enough and sounds good!

If you liked the original Hugo you can always get the Hugo 2 and add a 2Go streaming module.
I have to admit that after hearing the original Mojo I went all in with Chord DACs. I have the 2Qute in my Stereo system (which is the Hugo with fixed output), use the Hugo2Go for headphone/IEM listening at home or for big trips, and the Mojo2Poly for office and when I travel light.

The Hugo 2 is more transparent, has deeper soundstage and more focused imaging and is generally more resolving and incisive than the 2Qute/Hugo.
There's also a feeling of "hearing the room", it's like you don't simply hear the position of the instruments but you hear the reflections off the walls, you can almost feel the room. It's also faster and more textured, the notes have a more defined leading edge and more texture and detail in the decay.

The 2Go adds a little bit of SQ over the micro-USB connection to laptop and makes the package more flexible as a portable player in the house and on the road.
Ideally controlled via ROON but I use it with the free iPhone App MConnect and it works well with local files on SD card and Qobuz. Tidal also works well but SQ seems a little worse than Qobuz.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I'd rather stay away from the laptop as a source. For the cost of something like the Ifi Zen Streamer (RM2,079 over here so approx USD470 or GBP385) its worth it to me to know that the 'streaming' part is taken care of and isn't being restricted by my crappy laptop....

Consider Yamaha Music Cast, Bluesound node 2i, or a HEOS box.

 

[Deolum]

From my experience it also depends on the laptop/computer. Those standard windows laptops sounded worse to me than macs. It sounds also better if it's connected over ethernet rather than over wifi. An ethernet connected macbook air should be a good source and not sounding worse than those budget streaming solutions.

I tried different laptops, headless mac mini, different streamers (sotm, auralic, bluesound etc.). I ended up with a Lumin U1 Mini which is absolutely perfect for me both in terms of sound and handling.

If you go for a budget route like Pi + Volumino or other Upnp/Airplay solutions make sure it's nice to handle and not a hassle with crashes, messy interfaces etc.