[Fírnen]

I feel like I'm crazy. To make a long story short, I initially got into this hobby about a year ago after purchasing a pair of Sennheiser HD660S's. Now, after learning a lot about this stuff, I think I like a pair of IEMs better. Specifically the Kbear KS2s. Am I crazy?

As far as my setup goes, I listen to the KS2s almost exclusively through a FiiO BTR5; for the 660S, I have a FiiO M17 I run primarily in its DC mode. My brain tells me I should like the Sennheisers more. Horrific financial decisions aside, I'd like some opinions from people that use headphones and IEMs.

It just doesn't seem reasonable that these IEMs can sound better to me than those headphones. Especially considering the price difference.

 

[earmonger]

Maybe you like big bass for your preferred musical styles. And maybe the intimacy/isolation of IEMs works better for you than the relative distance of over-ears. It's all about satisfaction--enjoy what works for you!

 

[ADUHF]

Related question for the OP or anyone else who wishes to respond... I don't doubt that the sound quality may seem better on an IEM in some ways, but can you get the same sense of space, dimension, and impact from an IEM as from a good open over-ear HP, with bigger drivers?

 

[arijitroy2]

Deleted.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I feel like I'm crazy. To make a long story short, I initially got into this hobby about a year ago after purchasing a pair of Sennheiser HD660S's. Now, after learning a lot about this stuff, I think I like a pair of IEMs better. Specifically the Kbear KS2s. Am I crazy?

As far as my setup goes, I listen to the KS2s almost exclusively through a FiiO BTR5; for the 660S, I have a FiiO M17 I run primarily in its DC mode. My brain tells me I should like the Sennheisers more. Horrific financial decisions aside, I'd like some opinions from people that use headphones and IEMs.

It just doesn't seem reasonable that these IEMs can sound better to me than those headphones. Especially considering the price difference.

You may just prefer the sound of that particular IEM.

Or the higher sensitivity of that IEM assuming its rating is 1104dB/1mW makes it easier to drive and the M17 isn't exactly producing as much voltage nor current for a 150ohm load with a 98dB/1mW (104dB/1V, IIRC) sensitivity.

Or the noise floor is relatively high, so on top of the IEMs being easier to drive and thus you're getting a lot less distortion and noise from not stressing even a BT dongle, you're still hearing more of the music to begin with due to the isolation. Cranking up the sound to get over the background noise does more to damage your hearing or add distortion than compensate for ambient noise. Just because you can't hear it distinctly doesn't mean it's not getting in the way.

 

[Fírnen]

Related question for the OP or anyone else who wishes to respond... I don't doubt that the sound quality may seem better on an IEM in some ways, but can you get the same sense of space, dimension, and impact from an IEM as from a good open over-ear HP, with bigger drivers?

It's hard for me to describe the differences. I was specifically comparing the HD660S for the sake of the thread, but (and I am crazy) about two months after I bought those, I also bought a set of Empyreans; those I do prefer over everything else I currently have. I suppose it really does just come down to sound preference. I could bring my Empyreans to the office, but I doubt my co-workers would want to listen in on my music. Not really a useful comparison though, considering the 120x price difference between the Empyreans and the KS2s. It's not even that I dislike the HD660S. Would they be considered an "analytical" sounding HP?

...you're still hearing more of the music to begin with due to the isolation. Cranking up the sound to get over the background noise does more to damage your hearing or add distortion than compensate for ambient noise. Just because you can't hear it distinctly doesn't mean it's not getting in the way.

Something to be said for watching the volume, for sure. I run the BTR5 at almost too low gain for me though, because there's a bit of a hiss if I have it set higher. The KS2s are either extremely sensitive or the BTR5 is really noisy (or both), either way I keep the gain on low set at 22 out of 60 generally. Almost too quiet. I need to though because otherwise I hear a hiss and some odd distortion (clipping?) on especially quiet parts of songs. Running stuff off the m17 is the complete opposite, I have to be careful not to set gain too high because there will be no distortion or hissing no matter the settings.

As I said though, I run the HD660S and any other over-ears out of the m17 and the IEMs out of my BTR5; these are extremely different devices, power-wise. I suppose the real crazy thing is that I hadn't bought either the m17 or BTR5 until after I bought the Empyreans

You may just prefer the sound of that particular IEM.

At the end of the day this is probably accurate.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Something to be said for watching the volume, for sure. I run the BTR5 at almost too low gain for me though, because there's a bit of a hiss if I have it set higher. The KS2s are either extremely sensitive or the BTR5 is really noisy (or both), either way I keep the gain on low set at 22 out of 60 generally. Almost too quiet. I need to though because otherwise I hear a hiss and some odd distortion (clipping?) on especially quiet parts of songs.

At 104dB/1mW those KS2's are not at all sensitive outside of comparing them to headphones. For example my Westone2 is 115dB/1mW and my Aurisonics ASG-1.3 is 120dB/1mW. So it's more likely that the BTR5 is just relatively noisy, just not the sort of noise that will easily shine through with any reasonably more sensitive IEM (but not extremely sensitive IEM), ie the noise goes up with power.

Running stuff off the m17 is the complete opposite, I have to be careful not to set gain too high because there will be no distortion or hissing no matter the settings.

As I said though, I run the HD660S and any other over-ears out of the m17 and the IEMs out of my BTR5; these are extremely different devices, power-wise. I suppose the real crazy thing is that I hadn't bought either the m17 or BTR5 until after I bought the Empyreans

OK...if it has zero noise then why not just set the M17 to low gain and then not crank up the volume? Are you saying you're using the THD+N as some kind of hearing damage trip wire? Because that's not how this works. I mean sure it's easier to crank it up too far when there's no distortion, but that's on a really good amplifier circuit on anything that won't stress it. That doesn't mean that another amp, even a good one, when used to drive something that will get it to produce audible noise if not obvious and bad distortion, will still not be well into the point of causing hearing damage before it gets to that point.

As I said though, I run the HD660S and any other over-ears out of the m17 and the IEMs out of my BTR5; these are extremely different devices, power-wise. I suppose the real crazy thing is that I hadn't bought either the m17 or BTR5 un

As much as it's 150ohms, 98dB/1mW instead of 300ohms, 98dB/1mW, I'd still prefer not to run it off a DAP.

I mean sure if the form factor is for heavy consideration then liking the still easier to drive IEM by comparison to the HD660 (if not so much when compared to other IEMs), more so the sort of environment where a portable rig might be used where a headphone (much less one with an open back design) will be at an extreme disadvantage, but understand that in terms of what the HD660S can really do you may not really have heard it at its best.

For example people tend to talk about how dynamic Grados are vs competing Sennheisers and AKGs, but from putting them all on something like the OG Burson Soloist (haven't tried the new one), a Meier Symphony, or heck, even my Meier Cantate.2, tends to really narrow that gap especially if you volume match when using amps like these.

 

[Koresh]

It's hard for me to describe the differences. I was specifically comparing the HD660S for the sake of the thread, but (and I am crazy) about two months after I bought those, I also bought a set of Empyreans; those I do prefer over everything else I currently have. I suppose it really does just come down to sound preference. I could bring my Empyreans to the office, but I doubt my co-workers would want to listen in on my music. Not really a useful comparison though, considering the 120x price difference between the Empyreans and the KS2s. It's not even that I dislike the HD660S. Would they be considered an "analytical" sounding HP?

Something to be said for watching the volume, for sure. I run the BTR5 at almost too low gain for me though, because there's a bit of a hiss if I have it set higher. The KS2s are either extremely sensitive or the BTR5 is really noisy (or both), either way I keep the gain on low set at 22 out of 60 generally. Almost too quiet. I need to though because otherwise I hear a hiss and some odd distortion (clipping?) on especially quiet parts of songs. Running stuff off the m17 is the complete opposite, I have to be careful not to set gain too high because there will be no distortion or hissing no matter the settings.

As I said though, I run the HD660S and any other over-ears out of the m17 and the IEMs out of my BTR5; these are extremely different devices, power-wise. I suppose the real crazy thing is that I hadn't bought either the m17 or BTR5 until after I bought the Empyreans


At the end of the day this is probably accurate.

Maybe U just like the tuning on ur IEM better.

 

[Koresh]

There are people out there who care about tuning more than technicalities. I used to chase after technicalities but now I care about good tuning and decent techs. IEMs also have a better price-to-performance ratio compared to open-back headphones.

 

[Death_Block]

Try some open back iem's?

 

[Fírnen]

At 104dB/1mW those KS2's are not at all sensitive outside of comparing them to headphones. For example my Westone2 is 115dB/1mW and my Aurisonics ASG-1.3 is 120dB/1mW. So it's more likely that the BTR5 is just relatively noisy, just not the sort of noise that will easily shine through with any reasonably more sensitive IEM (but not extremely sensitive IEM), ie the noise goes up with power.

Been thinking the same thing about the BTR5; just a noisy source. Not hugely so, can be mitigated with low gain. I can still hear some slight clipping/distortion in very quiet parts of music though, despite having the gain set so the max volume of my phone is barely louder than my comfortable listening volume. I may be using the term "gain" incorrectly, forgive me; there are two gain settings on the BTR5, low and high. After that, "volume" can be tuned via the volume buttons on it, in increments of 60. In my head, I have been calling it gain because the volume on the BTR5 affects the amount noise I hear on my IEMs while the volume on my phone does not, beyond boosting what is already there. Is that the correct usage, or am I still off on what gain really is?

OK...if it has zero noise then why not just set the M17 to low gain and then not crank up the volume? Are you saying you're using the THD+N as some kind of hearing damage trip wire? Because that's not how this works. I mean sure it's easier to crank it up too far when there's no distortion, but that's on a really good amplifier circuit on anything that won't stress it. That doesn't mean that another amp, even a good one, when used to drive something that will get it to produce audible noise if not obvious and bad distortion, will still not be well into the point of causing hearing damage before it gets to that point.

Purely down to the convenience factor. BTR5 is a very tiny device, and IEMs are also very small. Both can be pocketed easily. I only really mentioned the bit about keeping the gain low because it seems like it would be a helpful consideration for those newer to this than me. A year ago I had no concept of what gain was; a pair of IEMs was just an uncomfortable pair of earbuds. As you mentioned, and from what I have read previously, IEMs can be damaging to your ears if not careful.

As much as it's 150ohms, 98dB/1mW instead of 300ohms, 98dB/1mW, I'd still prefer not to run it off a DAP.

I mean sure if the form factor is for heavy consideration then liking the still easier to drive IEM by comparison to the HD660 (if not so much when compared to other IEMs), more so the sort of environment where a portable rig might be used where a headphone (much less one with an open back design) will be at an extreme disadvantage, but understand that in terms of what the HD660S can really do you may not really have heard it at its best.

For example people tend to talk about how dynamic Grados are vs competing Sennheisers and AKGs, but from putting them all on something like the OG Burson Soloist (haven't tried the new one), a Meier Symphony, or heck, even my Meier Cantate.2, tends to really narrow that gap especially if you volume match when using amps like these.

Maybe I need to give the HD660S another shot, but it seems to me (without entirely understanding what all the numbers mean) that the m17 running in it's DC mode has more than enough power for them. Maybe I have not heard them at their best as you say, hard for me to know given my limited selection of sources.

Try some open back iem's?

Was just thinking about that today, lol. At some point I'd like to. Selection for open-back IEMs seems limited from what I gather, bearing in mind I have never gone out of my way to look for them. Would you have a good suggestion for some to look into?

 

[ADUHF]

Try some open back iem's?

An open IEM still won't have any pinna interaction though. Which is what some people claim is part of what makes the better over-ear headphones have a more open, spacious, immersive, and involving sound to their ears. (Startin to sound like a card-carrying audiophile now, so better quit while I'm ahead!)

 

[Death_Block]

Been thinking the same thing about the BTR5; just a noisy source. Not hugely so, can be mitigated with low gain. I can still hear some slight clipping/distortion in very quiet parts of music though, despite having the gain set so the max volume of my phone is barely louder than my comfortable listening volume. I may be using the term "gain" incorrectly, forgive me; there are two gain settings on the BTR5, low and high. After that, "volume" can be tuned via the volume buttons on it, in increments of 60. In my head, I have been calling it gain because the volume on the BTR5 affects the amount noise I hear on my IEMs while the volume on my phone does not, beyond boosting what is already there. Is that the correct usage, or am I still off on what gain really is?

Purely down to the convenience factor. BTR5 is a very tiny device, and IEMs are also very small. Both can be pocketed easily. I only really mentioned the bit about keeping the gain low because it seems like it would be a helpful consideration for those newer to this than me. A year ago I had no concept of what gain was; a pair of IEMs was just an uncomfortable pair of earbuds. As you mentioned, and from what I have read previously, IEMs can be damaging to your ears if not careful.

Maybe I need to give the HD660S another shot, but it seems to me (without entirely understanding what all the numbers mean) that the m17 running in it's DC mode has more than enough power for them. Maybe I have not heard them at their best as you say, hard for me to know given my limited selection of sources.

Was just thinking about that today, lol. At some point I'd like to. Selection for open-back IEMs seems limited from what I gather, bearing in mind I have never gone out of my way to look for them. Would you have a good suggestion for some to look into?

Audeze have a good selection. One of the few that has a product line for them. I'm a huge fan of the Lcdi4. It's amazing

 

[Fírnen]

I'm a huge fan of the Lcdi4. It's amazing

I sure hope they are for that price, gott damn. I'm comparing $25 IEMs here

Not comfortable spending that kind of money on IEMs just yet, I may get there. Looking it up has piqued my curiosity though. Guess I'll blame you if I end up buying these or something similar down the line haha.

 

[Death_Block]

Isine my friend. Much cheaper