[Prog Rock Man]

So what in your mind is an acceptable level of knowledge before you can make comment on kit?
 
I think that all submissions are acceptable to one degree or another, so long as they are qualitfied e.g I heard the AH D1001 at a listening post out of an ipod with tracks by Queen, The Rolling Stones and The Scissor Sisters that I am familiar with and I found the cans to be bass heavy.

 

[Arnaldo]

A rather intriguing conjecture. Even more so from an outsider's perspective... And by the way, the quote in your signature, "I may be a failed audiophile but at least I am a satisfied and happy music lover," feels very appropriate in the context of this (and many other audio) forum(s).
 
Quote:

In that case we may as well hand over the forum to half a dozen people, who will then rule over all others as they cannot have any meaningful contribution to make.
 

 

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

So what in your mind is an acceptable level of knowledge before you can make comment on kit?
 
I think that all submissions are acceptable to one degree or another, so long as they are qualitfied e.g I heard the AH D1001 at a listening post out of an ipod with tracks by Queen, The Rolling Stones and The Scissor Sisters that I am familiar with and I found the cans to be bass heavy.

Exactly. The word there is qualified, or to put it completely, qualified in the context it was evaluated in.
Meets / listening posts etc would qualify as the lowest grade of relative validity even within the confines of that individual's ability to evaluate their gear.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

There have been threads before along a similar vein. One was about whether you need to amp headphones or not. There were those who argued only a few with lots of knowledge could accurately comment. It got to a point where some were claiming that unless you were Duggeh, Boomana or Skylab, you did not have the knowledge to make any contribution.
 
I think that is nonsense because where there is so much subjectivity, we need lots of opinions. I would believe a dozen less knowledgeable people who stated that the AH D1001s were bassy as much as, if not more one expert stating the same thing. I would also accept that I may end up not finding them bassy no matter what the consensus is or what the expert states.
 
By stating I have listened to those headphones straight off an ipod and listened to The Rolling Stones and found them bassy, will, along with other opinions may be of great use to someone who is looking for bassy headphones to use off their ipod and loves The Rolling Stones.
 
My issues are with people who blurt out the flavour of the month, their latest buy no matter what and do not qualify and people who have owned loads of kit who think their impressions are more important with the community as a whole.
 
I am a failed audiophile as I no longer find that the kit is as important as the actual quality of the music, the listening environment and your mood/state of mind.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Exactly. The word there is qualified, or to put it completely, qualified in the context it was evaluated in.
Meets / listening posts etc would qualify as the lowest grade of relative validity even within the confines of that individual's ability to evaluate their gear.

I have not been to any meets so this is a made up example -
 
At a meet 20 people get a 5 minute shot at listening to the latest headphone from Grado. They then comment on what their impressions were and if it turns out the majority felt the sound was bright, then I would be inclined to say that is correct. If one expert buys a pair, takes them home, listens for hours and states to them they were not bright, I would still go with the majority.
 
If the 20 poeple come out with a whole range of opinions on the sound with no consensus and the expert reports back and says they were not bright, I would go with the expert.
 
However, I would still have to hear them for myself to really know if they are bright to me or not.

 

[bangraman]

sorry, edited the post as a dupe

 

[bangraman]

 
Quote:

There have been threads before along a similar vein. One was about whether you need to amp headphones or not. There were those who argued only a few with lots of knowledge could accurately comment. It got to a point where some were claiming that unless you were Duggeh, Boomana or Skylab, you did not have the knowledge to make any contribution.
 
I think that is nonsense because where there is so much subjectivity, we need lots of opinions. I would believe a dozen less knowledgeable people who stated that the AH D1001s were bassy as much as, if not more one expert stating the same thing. I would also accept that I may end up not finding them bassy no matter what the consensus is or what the expert states.
 
By stating I have listened to those headphones straight off an ipod and listened to The Rolling Stones and found them bassy, will, along with other opinions may be of great use to someone who is looking for bassy headphones to use off their ipod and loves The Rolling Stones.
 
My issues are with people who blurt out the flavour of the month, their latest buy no matter what and do not qualify and people who have owned loads of kit who think their impressions are more important with the community as a whole.
 
I am a failed audiophile as I no longer find that the kit is as important as the actual quality of the music, the listening environment and your mood/state of mind.

 
I think one thing is not getting through. Someone who states his views in a completely subjective frame of mind in a location that will further subjectivise (sic) the evaluation is just as worthless as someone who writes about a phone without hearing it. (Is anyone else having serious problem with Huddler editing? It's just not working for me)
 
 

 

[elrod-tom]

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that only folks who are fortunate enough to have owned pretty much everything are qualified to comment.  What people are saying is that when folks feel compelled to comment on gear that they haven't heard, it's typically of no value and tends to clog up the forums.
 
As I had said, this has been going on forever.  For example, back in the good old days, anytime anyone was looking to purchase an amp, a handful of folks would invariably chime in that they should get a DIY Meta42.  Said that it was the greatest thing ever, and that spending money on anything else (especially something by - gasp! - HeadRoom) was just a waste.  Setting aside for a moment that money spent on an amp from an established manufacturer might have its own benefits, what invariably ended up happening is that at least half of the people who recommended the Meta42 had NEVER EVEN HEARD either the Meta42 or the amp that they were saying was such a waste of money.
 
I think a big part of this is a certain Flavor of the Month sort of groupthink amongs members in general, but particularly (no offense intended) newer/less experienced members.  It has been and remains a mystery why people feel compelled to do this.  It's not a crime to be limited in your experiences...is hearing the sound of one's own (written) voice so important?
 
* For the record, I heard a lot of different Meta42's back in the day, and if you had a good builder it was a pretty good amp. 

 
 

 

[Skylab]

I have a theory as to why newbies tend to be most rabid FOTM followers - there is a degree to which this gives them a certain perceived credibility. For the noob who is looking to become an active participant on the forums, owning the hot current product allows relative newcomers to be a part of the excitement of a new product.  Unfortunately, lacking a basis of proper comparison, they really have no alternative in most cases but to be very enthusiastic about what they are hearing, as it very likely IS better than anything they have heard.
 
There are some ways in which experience really is the only teacher, and there are ways in which the best comparisons do, by necessity, come from members who have heard the widest variety of gear, and in more than just very short doses.  This is not a matter of denigrating newbies - it is just the very nature of experience, and the nature of comparative subjective opinions in general.
 
BTW: I did this very thing way back when.  Right around the time I joined, the original HF-1 was FOTM.  I bought one so I could join the conversation.  But having only owned the HD-650 before, my ability to comment critically on the HF-1 was much more limited than the more experienced members here.
 

 

[Locknar]

I'm glad you brought this up because I'm new to this forum and have been trying to figure out what tube/hybrid amp to get for my knew HD650's. I've got the impression a few times (from some responses and from related threads I've read regarding my query) that people are just regurgitating info or recommending this over that (without actually hearing that), which is fine, as long as it's made clear. I think it would be cool to have a separate newbie forum so that people who don't speak or understand Audiophilese can post or ask a question without feeling intimidated or having to point out that they're "new to this" and "help", and so on. That way some of the more active and supreme Head-fiers could go directly to a place where they can be of greater assistance for noobs when in a "giving mood". Kind of like a big brother.
 

 

[logwed]

Quote:

I'm glad you brought this up because I'm new to this forum and have been trying to figure out what tube/hybrid amp to get for my knew HD650's. I've got the impression a few times (from some responses and from related threads I've read regarding my query) that people are just regurgitating info or recommending this over that (without actually hearing that), which is fine, as long as it's made clear. I think it would be cool to have a separate newbie forum so that people who don't speak or understand Audiophilese can post or ask a question without feeling intimidated or having to point out that they're "new to this" and "help", and so on. That way some of the more active and supreme Head-fiers could go directly to a place where they can be of greater assistance for noobs when in a "giving mood". Kind of like a big brother.
 

 
You would never get useful advice, because most veteran head-fiers would never go to such a hellhole. Do you think that we all enjoy 'PLEASE RECOMMEND ME THIS'-type threads?

 

[Locknar]

Quote:

 
You would never get useful advice, because most veteran head-fiers would never go to such a hellhole. Do you think that we all enjoy 'PLEASE RECOMMEND ME THIS'-type threads?

No, and that is precisely why it would be a good thing. So you don't have to be burdened by reading all of the inane 'PLEASE RECOMMEND ME THIS' type of threads. Sorry Your Headphoneus Supremeusness has to be bothered. Look, if you're in the 4th grade, chances are you're not gonna hang out in the part of the playground where all the 6th graders are hanging because you'll probably be ignored or ridiculed. The former happens here all the time. But there are always a few older kids who aren't too cool to venture over and play with the little kids. So if there is a dedicated forum where all the scrubs can go, then at least they can share their new found enthusiasm with others who are on the same level, and if (as I mentioned before) a "veteran" is in a giving mood he or she(?) can venture into the noob forum to help out. Clearly you won't be so inclined but I believe there are other more philanthropic "veterans" who would. Or not!

 

 

[elrod-tom]

In spite of what some might think, most folks who have been around here for a while are more than happy to make recommendations about gear that they've heard.  Some of the more useful threads are the review threads by members who have experienced a lot of gear.  We have quite a few that do...Skylab does a nice job, for example.  I wish I had more time to do so, as it's something that I really enjoy and I've had a lot of gear over the last 10 years or so.  There's a lot of knowledge accumulated out there in various threads, all one need do is search for it a bit.  I also feel like our more experienced members are generally those who are willing to help out in threads where newer members are seeking some help.  Folks like that tend to have some investment in the site, and remember what it was like to be a new member.

 

[Locknar]

Quote:

In spite of what some might think, most folks who have been around here for a while are more than happy to make recommendations about gear that they've heard.  Some of the more useful threads are the review threads by members who have experienced a lot of gear.  We have quite a few that do...Skylab does a nice job, for example.  I wish I had more time to do so, as it's something that I really enjoy and I've had a lot of gear over the last 10 years or so.  There's a lot of knowledge accumulated out there in various threads, all one need do is search for it a bit.  I also feel like our more experienced members are generally those who are willing to help out in threads where newer members are seeking some help.  Folks like that tend to have some investment in the site, and remember what it was like to be a new member.

Well said.
 
 

 

[cifani090]

Quote:

In spite of what some might think, most folks who have been around here for a while are more than happy to make recommendations about gear that they've heard.  Some of the more useful threads are the review threads by members who have experienced a lot of gear.  We have quite a few that do...Skylab does a nice job, for example.  I wish I had more time to do so, as it's something that I really enjoy and I've had a lot of gear over the last 10 years or so.  There's a lot of knowledge accumulated out there in various threads, all one need do is search for it a bit.  I also feel like our more experienced members are generally those who are willing to help out in threads where newer members are seeking some help.  Folks like that tend to have some investment in the site, and remember what it was like to be a new member.

I think that was also very well said. With me, i feel that i should of started on Head-Fi back is 2003. I do recommend gear that i have not heard, only because i have read hundreds of reviews and impressions and take into consideration what other people like. I like helping out the newer crowd because i know that well established members like Jude and Skylab wont be able to do that for every member. They try there best, but they have a life and they have to balance it between their family and Head-Fi