[rds]

Quote:

While I would normally take exception to this, it appears, in this case, to be true, depending on inflection, of course.

Yeah, exactly. Is a Honda more than enough to get you to the grocery store? You may want a Ferrari...

 

[LUMIERE]

At a reasonable price, I had a DACT stepped attenuator put into my Gilmore V2. I've heard the V2 without it, and I wouldn't go back to a non-stepped unit. The difference is transparency. For lack of a better term, magic. Somehow the stepped attenuator reveals more of the music than just a standard pot. Or rather, it let's more of the music flow through at the level you desire. Just be careful in your selection of one, you may have limited volume control at the extreme lower levels.

 

[rds]

Quote:

Just be careful in your selection of one, you may have limited volume control at the extreme lower levels.

With a stepped attenuator a gain switch is a must.

Quote:

The difference is transparency.

I agree. I've also a/bed two amps that were identical with the exception that one had an rk27 and one had a stepped attenuator. The difference is subtle for sure, but everything is when you get into stuff at this level.

 

[LUMIERE]

I wish I had a gain switch on my amp, but wanted the least amount of switching possible. I have very little room to adjust the volume. Most of the time listening at the 7 o'clock position. 1 to 2 clicks from the bottom.

 

[Float]

Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Isn't that what he's doing right now? I don't at all understand why some people like to jump in and castigate someone for asking a question.

Actually I wanted to post a thread to ask about the merits of a volume pot and a step volume attenuator too, as I am looking to upgrade my volume pot.

having looked through headfi and other forums via google, I do not have a definite idea on which is good.

BUT looking through the posts from headfi, I spot a certain behavior. There seems to exist a pattern that when you ask questions on forums, there will be contributors to ask you to do your own research and to imply that you are lazy in asking a question on the forum.

Makes me wonder, wasn't a forum on the internet meant for sharing of info? Why are we so quick to write off that a person has not done his / her own homework before posting on the internet? Did we look into the factor of clarity? Maybe the earlier info were not presented in a concise nor clear manner which is why the thread-starter posts a new thread.

In addition, if asking questions which was asked before is not allowed, as indicated by the behaviour of these angry crowd, such as PARS, maybe the forum would be reduced to just a few posts, because most of the posts on headfi seeking reviews are by and large repetitive.

I guess in Par's ideal headfi headphone forum, there exists only a few threads, such as "Grado Vs Senn" "Ultrasone 9th Ed Vs XYZ Product" whereby any request of similar nature at later dates would invite Pars, Rds to jump in to answer in unison, "do your own research"...

In my opinion, I do not think HeadLover asked an invalid question, since this is the question in my head too, but looking through the forum replies on HeadWize and Headfi and noting how a certain part of the forum members tend to exhibit the above behaviour... I reframed from posting the question stated on this thread.

 

[rds]

30 seconds of searching brings me to this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/ste...ometer-209334/

I don`t think me or Pars are angry. It`s just having the same question asked so many times in different threads disperses the information.

 

[Pars]

I wasn't angry when I posted that, and if you search my posts you will see that I often just answer the question.

A 15 second search, using the Google search function on the upper "Search" item:

- Search Results for stepped attenuator vs. pot

My point is that the signal to noise ratio on head-fi has plunged drastically the last couple of years... a little research and forethought before posting helps alot IMHO. The way the question was asked (volume pot vs. stepped attenuator vs. pot... volume pot and pot are the same thing also) showed a lack of the above.

 

[jamato8]

I use the Goldpoint and like it. I have DACT and I am not going to say I can hear all of the differences but the attenuator is the same with the Goldpoint using better resistors and it has a lower price. Goldpoint also has some very nice custom volume control knobs that can be purchased with it.

 

[JamesL]

Within stepped attenuators, there are series, ladder, and shunted attenuators.
Ladder is supposed to be the best, while series and shunted attenuators both have compromises.

Without going into technical details of how each works ----
Series attenuator- Signal goes through more resistors, and also has more channel imbalance as a result
Shunted - Achieves the level of sq that ladder types give using a cheaper method, with the drawback being a jagged attenuation curve.
(it also results in varying input impedances between different attenuation levels)

In actuality, its unlikely anyone would notice these differences..
As long as the series attenuators use good resistors with good tolerance levels, there should not be much build-up of channel imbalance or johnson noise, and most amps already have a couple dozen resistors in the signal path anyways.
As for shunted attenuators, I don't think anyone really pays attention to the attenuation curve as they turn the knob.


All of goldpoint's model uses a series-type attenuation, and the joshua tree attenuator uses a shunted model iirc, and lots of people have had great results with both of them, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The rk50 is expensive because it's a lot harder to get non-segmented pots to achieve the level of sq as stepped attenuators. The rk27 is a relatively cheap potentiometer that tests well, and is thus a very popular and well respected pot.

There are also a lot of non-branded 23-step attenuators all over the web as well(blue, with silver/gold contacts), and depending on the types of resistors used, they can cost anywhere from $16(2-deck w/ smd in series, if you diy it) to around $60(4-deck, with high-tolerance resistors in ladder-configuration)
You might want to consider these as well.

 

[jamato8]

Well you then have the autoformer control that is often considered better than anything else out there but it does take up a bit of room.

I have used the DACT as a shunted attenuator and it is excellent but then there is no reason to use a DACT but I had it on hand.

 

[pabbi1]

An excellent post by Fitz of what the insides of an ALPS rk (40 in this case) looks like. And, why a resistor path is more precise / cleaner.

 

[earwicker7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Float /img/forum/go_quote.gif BUT looking through the posts from headfi, I spot a certain behavior. There seems to exist a pattern that when you ask questions on forums, there will be contributors to ask you to do your own research and to imply that you are lazy in asking a question on the forum. Makes me wonder, wasn't a forum on the internet meant for sharing of info? Why are we so quick to write off that a person has not done his / her own homework before posting on the internet?

It's called trolling. It's always the same people, over and over, cruising threads and jumping with joy when they get a chance to say "Do your research!" It's pretty sad.

 

[tk3]

There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but IMO at least a basic effort of your own should be made to see if the anwer can't be found with searching.
But then again, I'm more of the "reading" than the "asking" type, and by researching things on your own you typically learn more about it also than having it spoon fed to you.

Some forums are more tolerant about this than others, I see some more "advanced" forums where own research is mandatory and topics are immediately locked if this requisite isn't met.
But Head-fi is one of the easiest and most helpful forums when it comes to this, just look at all the "best headphones for X budget?" type of threads, of which there are sometimes even multiple on the same page.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's called trolling.

trolling is deliberately posting a thread that you know will be inflammatory on the boards.

as an example:
"Why do you listen to headphones when speakers are better" as a topic in the headphone forum.

nobody has trolled in this thread. Im also shocked that photo-cell attenuators have not been mentioned.
Quote:

It's always the same people, over and over, cruising threads and jumping with joy when they get a chance to say "Do your research!" It's pretty sad.

It is, everyone of them has said their piece a few times too many and is bored talking to people who will on the average post 4 or 5 times to create 3 threads asking the same 2 questions that have been asked before.

The unfortunate thing is that many of the people with REALLY high end gear are beyond bored with the atmosphere here. After the boards laugh down and belittle their recommendation for using something better than a portable amp with a flagship headphone people get bored if not offended and leave. Then you have noting left but children who mean well but don't know better. In this case, the boards are a great service to those who will search. The wisdom of the members of yore remains, and is accessible to those who want it.

Do a search.

 

[HeadLover]

guys
I had no means to hurt to make this a flame war!

I did search the forum, and read many things, but wanted to know more!

That is all!!!
What so bad about it?

I am writing in forums like computers, and like every day come someone and ask
"what is better quad vs due cores"
or
"Build me a pc for 1500$" (when there are like 10 open thread like that already!)

So, it was only a simple question, no means to harm or hurt or anything like that!
Just wanted to learn more