STAX vs. AKG K 1000
May 11, 2008 at 9:29 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

Naga

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The long departed (and never to return to production K1000) seems to be the highest regarded dynamic headphone (earspeakers); or at least one of the most valuable aside from the Sony R10/Qualia 010.

There seems to be nothing that can touch it (Sony MDR-F1 was cited as a poor alternative IIRC) and that other Sony ear speaker (forget the name) was quite quickly dismissed.

Now with alot of STAX threads springing up recently, I am curious if anyone has done some serious comparison b/w the Vaunted AKG K1000 and the various STAX models and feels that there is an even match in quality, presentation, detail, etc.

Or is this an apples to pears comparison?
 
May 12, 2008 at 5:07 AM Post #3 of 20
It should be noted that the Stax items are very old, 25+years to be exact. There have been many variations on the Lambda pro over the years including the current 202, 303 and 404. As well, Stax has probably made a dozen or more amps since the SRM-1.

What may be more to the point by way of comparison is the AKG 1000 vs the Stax Sigma, Sigma pro or Sigma404 (a "frankenphone" consisting of a Sigma enclosure and 404 drivers and cable. As I understand the AKG 1000 the drivers are set ahead of the ears.and this is the same as the earlier Sigma design.

Sigma.jpg


In fact I think these may be the only 2 phones ever made which attempted this design although one is a dynamic and the other an electrostatic.

It has to be significant (also awkward) to place the drivers this way because it means that there will be no direct signal from the driver to the ear drum, unlike every other headphone made. This is probably a more natural way to present sound, since sounds will go directly to the eardrum very rarely in normal listening, i.e. when a sound source is right beside your head. I personally like the Sigma sound and I suspect that the fans of the AKG 1000 are hearing a somewhat similar sonic presentation.
 
May 12, 2008 at 6:08 AM Post #4 of 20
Not quite apples and pears. The K1k does have an electrostaticky vibe to it. It's one of the fastest dynamic drivers I've ever heard, is fairly flat in terms of tonal balance (but not completely flat), and scales absolutely incredibly well with improvements in the signal path. It does have a resemblance to the SR-404 in sound signature, but just that - a resemblance. It matches, or even surpasses, the SR-404 in soundstage size (both are huge but the K1k has more depth and significantly better imaging, while the SR-404 tends to sound rather diffuse with blurry images). The K1k also has a better instrument tone - the SR-404's upper midrange peak really destroys its tonality to my ears. The K1k is tipped up in the highs, but fairly uniformly tipped up, so it doesn't have any peaks that cause artificial sibilance or any kind of midrange nastiness. Its midrange isn't full or lush but very true to life and accurate in tone. The bass is punchy and tight, but drops off like a stone below 40hz. The SR-404's bass is a bit more bloated but is also substantially deeper. The SR-404 does have a significant edge in speed, being electrostatic, and its upper treble has a very pleasant airy velvety feel, even if its lower treble is a bit peaky and harsh. The K1k doesn't feel quite as refined in the highs, but it's also not quite as harsh and peaky either.

The O2 is a completely different animal. It has a much smaller soundstage than either the K1k or the SR-404, but its imaging is even more precise than the K1k and miles ahead of the SR-404. It has a full, rich, lush sound that is nevertheless extremely detailed and very fast. It's quite impactful for a 'stat when driven right, much more so than the SR-404 but still not quite up to the K1k. Its dynamic range, however, is the best I've ever heard, bar none. The O2 almost sounds supernatural and magical - the fullness and lushness sounds almost like it's a coloration - but it somehow doesn't get in the way of its tonal accuracy, hence the "almost" denominator.

I much prefer the O2 over the K1k or the SR-404. I think the SR-404 could be a good headphone if matched with a source that has the reverse coloration in the midrange, effectively neutralizing it - but failing that, it's not that great of a headphone in my experience. It's just too flawed, and whatever it does well (and it does a lot of things well, make no mistake) isn't enough to offset its one glaring problem. The K1k needs to be system-matched properly but its combination of raw detail, tone, soundstage size, and impact, make it a very serious contender with nearly unlimited top-end potential. The O2 though, in the right rig, just has a certain magic to my ear that the others lack. Every time I've listened to any other headphone I've always picked out things that were wrong and that irritated me, but listening to the O2 is like coming home. It just feels right.
 
May 13, 2008 at 6:18 AM Post #5 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not quite apples and pears. The K1k does have an electrostaticky vibe to it. It's one of the fastest dynamic drivers I've ever heard, is fairly flat in terms of tonal balance (but not completely flat), and scales absolutely incredibly well with improvements in the signal path. It does have a resemblance to the SR-404 in sound signature, but just that - a resemblance. It matches, or even surpasses, the SR-404 in soundstage size (both are huge but the K1k has more depth and significantly better imaging, while the SR-404 tends to sound rather diffuse with blurry images). The K1k also has a better instrument tone - the SR-404's upper midrange peak really destroys its tonality to my ears. The K1k is tipped up in the highs, but fairly uniformly tipped up, so it doesn't have any peaks that cause artificial sibilance or any kind of midrange nastiness. Its midrange isn't full or lush but very true to life and accurate in tone. The bass is punchy and tight, but drops off like a stone below 40hz. The SR-404's bass is a bit more bloated but is also substantially deeper. The SR-404 does have a significant edge in speed, being electrostatic, and its upper treble has a very pleasant airy velvety feel, even if its lower treble is a bit peaky and harsh. The K1k doesn't feel quite as refined in the highs, but it's also not quite as harsh and peaky either.

The O2 is a completely different animal. It has a much smaller soundstage than either the K1k or the SR-404, but its imaging is even more precise than the K1k and miles ahead of the SR-404. It has a full, rich, lush sound that is nevertheless extremely detailed and very fast. It's quite impactful for a 'stat when driven right, much more so than the SR-404 but still not quite up to the K1k. Its dynamic range, however, is the best I've ever heard, bar none. The O2 almost sounds supernatural and magical - the fullness and lushness sounds almost like it's a coloration - but it somehow doesn't get in the way of its tonal accuracy, hence the "almost" denominator.

I much prefer the O2 over the K1k or the SR-404. I think the SR-404 could be a good headphone if matched with a source that has the reverse coloration in the midrange, effectively neutralizing it - but failing that, it's not that great of a headphone in my experience. It's just too flawed, and whatever it does well (and it does a lot of things well, make no mistake) isn't enough to offset its one glaring problem. The K1k needs to be system-matched properly but its combination of raw detail, tone, soundstage size, and impact, make it a very serious contender with nearly unlimited top-end potential. The O2 though, in the right rig, just has a certain magic to my ear that the others lack. Every time I've listened to any other headphone I've always picked out things that were wrong and that irritated me, but listening to the O2 is like coming home. It just feels right.



I am very happy with the 404 but I note that many people have problems with it especially the treble/upper midrange harshness. Silclear contact enhancer is very good with the 404. Progold will probably make the treble worse. Also a modestly priced silver cable with Eichmann bullet plugs really brought out the best in these phones even with a fairly low voltage drive Stax SRM3 amp.

If you can clear up the treble/upper midrange harshness, the 404 does a great job of giving a realistic "presence." Probably my main complaint is the somewhat heavy bottom bass. But it does go very deep.
 
May 13, 2008 at 7:05 AM Post #6 of 20
I prefer the SR-Lambda to the 404, and I prefer the K1k to both. My modded stax smegma (made from gamma pro drivers) is sublime and, to my ears, beats the K1k in everything bar the AKGs legendary sound field. My modded Sony ECR-500 is a close second.

I still love my K1k, but I love my superStax even more
biggrin.gif
 
May 15, 2008 at 12:27 AM Post #7 of 20
More comparisons please.

I simply can not stomach dropping over 1k on a used K1K. Despite the fact that I want one badly, I hope to find some compromise or benefit to going with 'stats instead.
 
May 15, 2008 at 3:36 PM Post #8 of 20
Interesting thread.
I am familiar with the "Stax sound", but very curious about the K1000. How it compares to various Stax', and other dynamic headphones.
 
May 15, 2008 at 3:55 PM Post #9 of 20
The K1000 definately has the better qualities of dynamic and electrostatic wrapped up in a single headphone. I look forward to reading more of this thread.
 
May 15, 2008 at 5:01 PM Post #10 of 20
Thought I was done with electrostats but I'm curious as well especially given the impressions of Justin's BHSE at canjam.
Too bad Justin's run is full so guess I'll be waiting a while to make a comparison...
Don't imagine I'll ever grid rid of my k1000s but curious if the o2 could sit along with it...

Anyone in the bay area get in the first run?
 
May 15, 2008 at 5:10 PM Post #11 of 20
Great thread. I just picked up a K1000 and was curious to see how others felt it stacked up against Stax headphones. I haven't spent a lot of time with the K1000 since I'm busy with another can, but I do enjoy the sound.
 
May 15, 2008 at 5:50 PM Post #12 of 20
Very interesting thread so far. I'm still crazy about the K-1000, but have been standing at the edge of electrostatic waters for some time. I'm very interested in comments from anyone else.
 
May 15, 2008 at 9:12 PM Post #13 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by foo_me /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thought I was done with electrostats but I'm curious as well especially given the impressions of Justin's BHSE at canjam.
Too bad Justin's run is full so guess I'll be waiting a while to make a comparison...
Don't imagine I'll ever grid rid of my k1000s but curious if the o2 could sit along with it...

Anyone in the bay area get in the first run?



Heh, I knew you couldn't stay away from them 'stats for long
smily_headphones1.gif
 
May 15, 2008 at 9:18 PM Post #14 of 20
heheheh...yeah, I think I just have to accept that I'll need one of each...though this all just waiting for the day when I move and I can get myself a nice pair of speakers
smily_headphones1.gif
 

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