[gammi]

For whatever it's worth, GoldenSound gave the X9000 an S ranking in their latest tier list video.

 

[WernerW]

For whatever it's worth, GoldenSound gave the X9000 an S ranking in their latest tier list video.

And all three guys, i.e., 'Golden Sound', 'DMS', and 'Resolve' ranked 'Sennheiser HE-1' and 'Warwick Aperio' being the absolute Top (mostly "S+").
And all three guys ranked 'Susvara' and 'Bravura' as "S".
And interestingly all three ranked 'Shangri La Sr' as "A", only, even when matched with powerful aftermarket amplifiers.

 

[No KNOTsense]

Although I respect all three of them, I rarely agree with their assessments. The Aperio is a B to me after a three hour audition. I own a Meze Elite and with the angled Alcantara pads I regard it as an S. Opinions and tastes can vary wildly.

 

[phil3607]

The Aperio and HE1 both come with matching amp are are effectively EQ’d to the matching amp which presumably will show them at their best. Given the rankings were specifically stated to be without EQ for other phones then it puts the headphone systems like Aperio etc at an advantage as EQ is already built in. I find the x9000 very picky/sensitive with ancillaries in that it’s character changes far more than I’d have expected to even minor changes up stream. It’s unlikely the reviewers have had the opportunity to hear the x9000 on the optimum system to get a comparison, in fact I’m not sure yet if many owners have had the opportunity to hear them at their best, I certainly don’t feel I have.

 

[gammi]

It’s unlikely the reviewers have had the opportunity to hear the x9000 on the optimum system to get a comparison, in fact I’m not sure yet if many owners have had the opportunity to hear them at their best, I certainly don’t feel I have.

I'd even go a step further and say we as a community still don't even know how to get the best out of these. There's no generally accepted EQ that I've seen, no widely preferred amp (outside of the TOTL amps preferred on all estats like the T2), etc. Also there's been very little exploration into adapting regular amps. I would love to compare my monoblocks + transformers to a "real" etsat amp some day, I bet it holds up or even surpasses in some regards.

It's difficult to do testing when it's $6k and so few people own one.
I'm hoping to help correct this. I bought a pair of EARS to do some testing, also will be sending my X9000 out to Mitch at Accurate Sound in January.

 

[BassicScience]

The Aperio and HE1 both come with matching amp are are effectively EQ’d to the matching amp which presumably will show them at their best. Given the rankings were specifically stated to be without EQ for other phones then it puts the headphone systems like Aperio etc at an advantage as EQ is already built in. I find the x9000 very picky/sensitive with ancillaries in that it’s character changes far more than I’d have expected to even minor changes up stream. It’s unlikely the reviewers have had the opportunity to hear the x9000 on the optimum system to get a comparison, in fact I’m not sure yet if many owners have had the opportunity to hear them at their best, I certainly don’t feel I have.

The rankings were specifically stated to be without listener-applied EQ. In the case of the Warwick products, the EQ is an internal tuning mechanism invisible to the end-user, and thus exempt from the criterion. What is germane is that certain headphones (notably estats and ribbons) present "difficult" loads for an amplifier, meaning that the choice of amplifier can impact frequency response and listener experience.

As much as I respect all three of the reviewers, and as much as my sonic preferences tend to align with theirs, to the best of my knowledge they all have vastly more experience listening to and evaluating non-electrostatic headphones. In any case, I doubt they've done extensive shootouts between estats with a variety of amps on hand. Until then, I regard their estat opinions as largely anecdotal. I would encourage anyone trying to make sense of the ratings to watch at least the beginning of the video where the rating methodology is discussed. You may then slide forward to any particular manufacturer (indexed alphabetically!) for more in-depth commentary on particular headphones of interest.

 

[phil3607]

The rankings were specifically stated to be without listener-applied EQ.

His actual words were “no EQ applied”. If it’s applied by the manufacturer then clearly there’s no other way to review the package than with the EQ. I’m not dismissing the results or calling foul on what they’re attempting to do, although your own ears should always be the final arbiter. Just making the observation that you need to be conscious this is a “headphone” ranking and not a “headphone system” ranking, the Aperio and HE1 are systems (and very highly tuned and impressive ones at that) while the x9000 is (or isn’t) being tuned by the end user. At this stage I don’t know of a single amp designed and built specifically for the x9000, but this may change (hopefully) and my take is that, there is considerable untapped potential with or without EQ.

 

[WernerW]

His actual words were “no EQ applied”. If it’s applied by the manufacturer then clearly there’s no other way to review the package than with the EQ. I’m not dismissing the results or calling foul on what they’re attempting to do, although your own ears should always be the final arbiter. Just making the observation that you need to be conscious this is a “headphone” ranking and not a “headphone system” ranking, the Aperio and HE1 are systems (and very highly tuned and impressive ones at that) while the x9000 is (or isn’t) being tuned by the end user. At this stage I don’t know of a single amp designed and built specifically for the x9000, but this may change (hopefully) and my take is that, there is considerable untapped potential with or without EQ.

No, I would not say that HE-1 and Aperio are including an EQ. For Bravura, that could be the case because there is no means to circumvent the internal DAC with its Sonoma-DSP.
But the Aperio can also be fed by an analog input signal, hence the user may deploy his own independent external DAC (by any other brand). Or the user can feed the Aperio with the analog output from a vinyl turntable.
For these cases, the signal inside the Aperio amp does not run through any internal DAC and not through any digital processing such as DSP or EQ.
I also read the same for the HE-1, i.e. no internal EQ is applied.

So, I think the "No-EQ test and comparison procedure" is vaild and fair for all headphones.

And anyway, to be honest, every headphone does a certain "EQ" by its own physical representation and design. At the end it doesn't matter if kind of "EQ" is applied via digital (DSP) means or by analog-electronic means via the transducer design or by mechanical-acoustical treatment of the geometry. Acoustical EQ ist part of every headphone design, even the earpads are kind of EQs.
Best example for a non-electronic but acoustical equalizer (spectral resonance suppressing EQ) is the "Acoustic Metamaterial Tuning System (AMTS)" from Dan Clark which he applies to Stealth, Expanse and Corina.

P.S.: All that said, my personal opinion is that all these rankings and reductions of complex headphone signatures down to a simple number and ranking is extreme nonsense and BS. So, I don't care, anyway, and even love my 009 (besides other E-stats) although 'The Three Tenors' don't love the 009 ...

 

[phil3607]

I certainly agree with your overall conclusion regarding the validity (nonsense, possibly) of rankings….

So, I think the "No-EQ test and comparison procedure" is vaild and fair for all headphones.

Although I’d argue as far as the Bravura and Aperio are concerned it makes it no more valid if there is a facility to use those phones without EQ. Unless of course, the ranking is specifically only by reference to its performance bypassing the EQ. I suspect the majority of listening has been done through the full system, as that’s likely how it sounds best, unsurprisingly, and that accordingly opinions have been formed on this basis. Obviously I don’t know this for a fact although Golden Sounds review is on utube so that should give a steer. I know if I was in their shoes I’d be ranking the system based on what I’d heard and not on how it sounded after I’d defeated any manufacturer applied EQ that came as part of the system. So that leaves the x9000 optimisation via amp and EQ to be worked out and applied before a direct head to head with those systems can be valid.

 

[VandyMan]

But the Aperio can also be fed by an analog input signal, hence the user may deploy his own independent external DAC (by any other brand). Or the user can feed the Aperio with the analog output from a vinyl turntable.
For these cases, the signal inside the Aperio amp does not run through any internal DAC and not through any digital processing such as DSP or EQ.

The Aperio applies EQ in the analog domain when the analog input is used. Remember, Bravura and Aperio use a different technology (HPEL) than all other electrostatics and that tech requires EQ by design to sound as intended.

 

[Roasty]

If it's the only stat you truly have enjoyed, I get it. It's really hard to get motivated to build an expensive system just around one pair of headphones. You might as well do it though lol

I just put the deposit for the grand cayman. not sure what's gotten over me lol.. anyways, I can still back out if the price turns out to be astronomical. am thinking if I do follow through, the wa33 will have to make way.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I just put the deposit for the grand cayman. not sure what's gotten over me lol.. anyways, I can still back out if the price turns out to be astronomical. am thinking if I do follow through, the wa33 will have to make way.

Major purchase! Congrats. The great thing as well is it seems like the Cayman will pair well with many types of stats should you be interested in others beyond the x9000 down the line.

 

[Audio Addict]

On Sunday I will be picking up the B-21 Raider prototype from Ray Samuels Audio. He told me today he has finished everything but the chassis. He is loaning me his SR-X9000 and his Abyss 1266 since these two are what drove the B-21 development.

I will get to play with it for a few weeks.

 

[Johnjc1]

I am hoping your guys can give me some advice.
I am not experienced headphone user and don't want to make the same mistakes as I have made in the past e.g Constantly upgrading gear so end game headphones is what I am hoping to find.
I tried a few headphones recently LCD 5 the latest Yamaha headphones and Meze Elite along with a few Stax models. The SR X9000 I liked the comfort and loved how open the sound was. I was worried they might not do stuff like Dream Theater well but was impressed with what I heard but really came into their own whilst listening to Rodrigo Y Gabriel and Max Richter.
So my questions are with a budget of £10000 ( I am based in the UK) what enginerzier should I get. But this includes enginerzier or headphone amplifier.
Would I be better off going for the SR 700 MK1 I read a few people saying they prefer and a YouTube review where they prefer it.
Should I consider anything else instead
With regards to sound preferences a open sound where I can place instruments need to have speed and able to do bass texture and colour. My st be able to have a good timpani sound as well as managing kick drums. Genres include prog metal, neo classical, world fusion, classic rock, gypsy jazz and modern cello music.

 

[urs]

I am not experienced headphone user and don't want to make the same mistakes as I have made in the past e.g Constantly upgrading gear so end game headphones is what I am hoping to find.

You may want to spend some time to play the "trial & error"game: Testing various models of phones and amps in your budget range and with YOUR music, without buying instantly.
Reading our very competent and informative threads in the forum needs a base of know-how, such as WHO is writing, what music and source material is she/he using, etc.
At the end: only YOUR ears matter…

Regards
Urs

PS: With the X9000 you have a good chance to be very near “the End Game” indeed, at least for the phones
For the amp & source (Vinyl vs Digital, music style, etc. Solid State vs Tubes) you may still have use above procedure