[Ciggavelli]

I will always opt for resolution which is why I so love the sr1a

Yeah, I'm turning into a treble head and a bass head..lol

You'd like the Shangri-la Sr a lot I think

 

[jlbrach]

Yeah, I'm turning into a treble head and a bass head..lol

You'd like the Shangri-la Sr a lot I think

perhaps but the cost difference between the sr1a and the shangri la sr makes it unlikely

 

[BTD1]

I did some experimenting with the x9000 cup placement and positioning on my head. I was really surprised to realize that if the thick part of the pads are to the back of head and tilted out, the bass increases! Very Similar to the Abyss Phi TC. In fact there is an open space in back between my head and the inside of the cup. I don't really know anything about the physics of why this appears to increase the bass, but it does. It seems as though the cup does not need to seal as it does on most other headphones. Any insight into why this works would be appreciated. These headphones reveal their excellence more and more over time.

 

[Chefguru]

I did some experimenting with the x9000 cup placement and positioning on my head. I was really surprised to realize that if the thick part of the pads are to the back of head and tilted out, the bass increases! Very Similar to the Abyss Phi TC. In fact there is an open space in back between my head and the inside of the cup. I don't really know anything about the physics of why this appears to increase the bass, but it does. It seems as though the cup does not need to seal as it does on most other headphones. Any insight into why this works would be appreciated. These headphones reveal their excellence more and more over time.

Noticed this as well. Also found a big sonic differential between having the headband on the tightest fit (fuller mids) that works for me vs a looser fit (bigger soundstage)
Interesting

 

[jlbrach]

not really a surprise, this is why several manufacturers offer different pads because they provide different sound signatures

 

[SolarCetacean]

I did some experimenting with the x9000 cup placement and positioning on my head. I was really surprised to realize that if the thick part of the pads are to the back of head and tilted out, the bass increases! Very Similar to the Abyss Phi TC. In fact there is an open space in back between my head and the inside of the cup. I don't really know anything about the physics of why this appears to increase the bass, but it does. It seems as though the cup does not need to seal as it does on most other headphones. Any insight into why this works would be appreciated. These headphones reveal their excellence more and more over time.

That sounds like a resonance thing that's common on planar-type headphones that use a sealed front volume. A looser seal introduces an air gap, which results in a resonance that boosts the bass around the resonant frequency of the driver. That's part of why the Abyss 1266 has enormous bass, because it has no driver damping, and the pads are meant to be worn with an air gap, so the resonance produces a massive amount of bass. This sort of resonance does hurt bass extension, as it will drop off more sharply below the resonance frequency.

What the resonant frequency is then determines how the bass changes with the air gap. If the resonance is around 75-100 Hz, then you get a boost to the mid-bass, and that's often where drums have a lot of their impact, so that gets nicely boosted, but you will lose some of that deep sub-bass (<50 Hz). Most planar magnetic drivers have their resonances somewhere in that range. A few Hifiman drivers have lower resonant frequencies, around 40 Hz, so you only lose the absolute lowest tones if you don't get a good seal. Dan Clark headphones tend to have unusually high resonant frequencies, like around 400 Hz, so a break in the seal just means the entire bass gets lost.

In electrostatics, the same principle applies. The new Advanced Lambda series of Staxen vent the front volume, so they tend to have a steep drop-off in bass below 50 Hz, and sometimes a hump around 70 Hz (like on the SR-L700). A similar thing occurs on the SR-007mk2, as the front volume is also not sealed, so you get a bass hump with a sharp roll-off in the sub-bass. Hence the popularity of the port mod to seal up the gap and prevent the resonance, thus removing the bass hump but providing better bass extension.

 

[Ciggavelli]

So, I listened to the Susvaras for like 4 hours today then switched to the X9K for the last hour. It's been all metal and rock today, no hip-hop. Between the Sus and the X9K, I think the X9K wins. I'm starting to think that the X9K is something really special, at least with my setup (I haven't heard it on anything else). The Susvara might be redundant now, as the X9K has the same sound signature in my mind. I have to do more comparisons, but they are definitely both kindred spirits.

Oh yeah, I found this great old school metal sounding album. It has vocals I typically dislike, but nevertheless it's a great listen:

 

[catscratch]

If you break the seal on an electrostat you get more bass around 50-100hz but then you also have a steep rolloff below 50hz, sometimes earlier than that, and you definitely decrease bass quality. All of the older Stax were designed to have a perfect seal in the bass, but some of the newer ones have been experimenting with partially breaking the seal to increase the midbass. Partially breaking the seal may also have some effects further up.

Oratory1990 clearly shows the effects of breaking the seal with his measurements of several headphones. Here's a Lambda Pro with a good seal and with a bad seal.

[edit: SolarCetacian beat me to it]

 

[hifixman]

So, I listened to the Susvaras for like 4 hours today then switched to the X9K for the last hour. It's been all metal and rock today, no hip-hop. Between the Sus and the X9K, I think the X9K wins. I'm starting to think that the X9K is something really special, at least with my setup (I haven't heard it on anything else). The Susvara might be redundant now, as the X9K has the same sound signature in my mind. I have to do more comparisons, but they are definitely both kindred spirits.

Oh yeah, I found this great old school metal sounding album. It has vocals I typically dislike, but nevertheless it's a great listen:

Personally speaking W33 irregarless of the specific version is not good for Susvara especially for the genres you listen to.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Personally speaking W33 irregarless of the specific version is not good for Susvara especially for the genres you listen to.

Yeah, the WA33 standard isn’t great. It’s better on the WA33 Elite JPS. I haven’t tried a speaker amp though.

 

[goldwerger]

That sounds like a resonance thing that's common on planar-type headphones that use a sealed front volume. A looser seal introduces an air gap, which results in a resonance that boosts the bass around the resonant frequency of the driver. That's part of why the Abyss 1266 has enormous bass, because it has no driver damping, and the pads are meant to be worn with an air gap, so the resonance produces a massive amount of bass. This sort of resonance does hurt bass extension, as it will drop off more sharply below the resonance frequency.

What the resonant frequency is then determines how the bass changes with the air gap. If the resonance is around 75-100 Hz, then you get a boost to the mid-bass, and that's often where drums have a lot of their impact, so that gets nicely boosted, but you will lose some of that deep sub-bass (<50 Hz). Most planar magnetic drivers have their resonances somewhere in that range. A few Hifiman drivers have lower resonant frequencies, around 40 Hz, so you only lose the absolute lowest tones if you don't get a good seal. Dan Clark headphones tend to have unusually high resonant frequencies, like around 400 Hz, so a break in the seal just means the entire bass gets lost.

In electrostatics, the same principle applies. The new Advanced Lambda series of Staxen vent the front volume, so they tend to have a steep drop-off in bass below 50 Hz, and sometimes a hump around 70 Hz (like on the SR-L700). A similar thing occurs on the SR-007mk2, as the front volume is also not sealed, so you get a bass hump with a sharp roll-off in the sub-bass. Hence the popularity of the port mod to seal up the gap and prevent the resonance, thus removing the bass hump but providing better bass extension.

Thanks for that. Great explanation.

 

[hifixman]

That sounds like a resonance thing that's common on planar-type headphones that use a sealed front volume. A looser seal introduces an air gap, which results in a resonance that boosts the bass around the resonant frequency of the driver. That's part of why the Abyss 1266 has enormous bass, because it has no driver damping, and the pads are meant to be worn with an air gap, so the resonance produces a massive amount of bass. This sort of resonance does hurt bass extension, as it will drop off more sharply below the resonance frequency.

What the resonant frequency is then determines how the bass changes with the air gap. If the resonance is around 75-100 Hz, then you get a boost to the mid-bass, and that's often where drums have a lot of their impact, so that gets nicely boosted, but you will lose some of that deep sub-bass (<50 Hz). Most planar magnetic drivers have their resonances somewhere in that range. A few Hifiman drivers have lower resonant frequencies, around 40 Hz, so you only lose the absolute lowest tones if you don't get a good seal. Dan Clark headphones tend to have unusually high resonant frequencies, like around 400 Hz, so a break in the seal just means the entire bass gets lost.

In electrostatics, the same principle applies. The new Advanced Lambda series of Staxen vent the front volume, so they tend to have a steep drop-off in bass below 50 Hz, and sometimes a hump around 70 Hz (like on the SR-L700). A similar thing occurs on the SR-007mk2, as the front volume is also not sealed, so you get a bass hump with a sharp roll-off in the sub-bass. Hence the popularity of the port mod to seal up the gap and prevent the resonance, thus removing the bass hump but providing better bass extension.

The priority of electrostatic design is membrane F0～DS> the stability to outside humidity from the conductivity painting materials> the airtight condition of the shell> the materials of ear pads> clamping force> the shape and size of membrane> the shape and size of earcups> Electrode transmittance> the thickness of membrane and conductive coating> electrode rigidity> cables

009宣传多层电极提升电极刚性，其实就算是软的网电极也不影响任何客观测量和听音，omega和X9000自家就推翻了，hfm的网电极更软，森海HE90电极还有不平的，但也说自己是为了提升刚性。。。009S宣传镀金是提升导电性，消费者觉得更好推了，原因其实是提高电极透过率+减少壳内空气体积，30多年前的lambda是都是紫铜蚀刻片电极，导电性巨好，后来的lambda不是冲孔喷漆钢板就是不锈钢板，但越高端的型号头梁可调更多，耳罩面料气密性相对越好. hfm hekv1厚壳+距离更短的头带调节距离，hekv2以后都换成薄壳+更长的头带调节距离，hfm耳罩面料也改了起码3个版本，宣传重心是“纳米振膜”、“隐形磁铁”，其实只有sus和hekse上的磁铁算高级点的磁铁，但也不见得比某些欧美土炮平板的磁铁好，sus和hek只是膜基材是纳米级，算上导体层就只是微米级了。。。森海静电的科学频响其实是形状+外壳密封性+耳罩面料共同作用引起的，HE1可能还在HE90的F0位置EQ了低频。”

( too much to translate… so I quit sorry)

 

[hifixman]

Just found a copycat diy X0008 lmao!

 

[HifiXMen]

“静电的优先级从高到低是膜片F0~DS~导电涂料对温湿度变化的稳定性~外壳气密性~耳罩面料~头梁夹持力~膜片面积和形状~耳罩开口形状和大小~电极透过率-电极局部透过率(如果有)-外观配色-膜片基材厚度和导电涂层厚度-电极刚性-线材。。。厂方一般只宣传最后3个，因为这3个消费者最容易理解。
The priority of electrostatic cans is membrane> the stability to outside humidity from the conductivity painting materials> the airtight level of the shell> material of ear pads> clamping force> the shape and size of membrane> the shape and size of earcups> Electrode transmittance> the thickness of membrane and conductive coating> electrode rigidity

009宣传多层电极提升电极刚性，其实就算是软的网电极也不影响任何客观测量和听音，omega和X9000自家就推翻了，hfm的网电极更软，森海HE90电极还有不平的，但也说自己是为了提升刚性。。。009S宣传镀金是提升导电性，消费者觉得更好推了，原因其实是提高电极透过率+减少壳内空气体积，30多年前的lambda是都是紫铜蚀刻片电极，导电性巨好，后来的lambda不是冲孔喷漆钢板就是不锈钢板，但越高端的型号头梁可调更多，耳罩面料气密性相对越好. hfm hekv1厚壳+距离更短的头带调节距离，hekv2以后都换成薄壳+更长的头带调节距离，hfm耳罩面料也改了起码3个版本，宣传重心是“纳米振膜”、“隐形磁铁”，其实只有sus和hekse上的磁铁算高级点的磁铁，但也不见得比某些欧美土炮平板的磁铁好，sus和hek只是膜基材是纳米级，算上导体层就只是微米级了。。。森海静电的科学频响其实是形状+外壳密封性+耳罩面料共同作用引起的，HE1可能还在HE90的F0位置EQ了低频。”

（ apologies for my poor English to translate… I tried to translate the first paragraph and then I quit lol)

谢谢老哥帮我翻译，F0是指的膜片最低谐振频率，由薄膜的张紧程度决定，正常情况下对于平板耳机和静电耳机，在低于F0频率范围的非线性失真会大幅增加，但却可以通过挑选耳罩面料透气性来降低影响，DS是膜片到电极的距离的简写，也就是distance between diaphragm and stator。
我有个更详细的制作DIY静电耳机的帖子发在了耳机俱乐部：http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-753621-1-1.html，包括详细的导电涂层选取，还有英文版的我发在了headcase，制作网电极的部分是英文版独有，导电涂层的选取是中文版独有， 感兴趣都可以看看，只要做好膜片和导电涂层，任何人都可以造出属于自己的旗舰静电耳机。

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.

 

[hifixman]

谢谢老哥帮我翻译，F0是指的膜片最低谐振频率，由薄膜的张紧程度决定，正常情况下对于平板耳机和静电耳机，在低于F0频率范围的非线性失真会大幅增加，但却可以通过挑选耳罩面料透气性来降低影响，DS是膜片到电极的距离的简写，也就是distance between diaphragm and stator。
我有个更详细的制作DIY静电耳机的帖子发在了耳机俱乐部：http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-753621-1-1.html，包括详细的导电涂层选取，还有英文版的我发在了headcase，制作网电极的部分是英文版独有，导电涂层的选取是中文版独有， 感兴趣都可以看看，只要做好膜片和导电涂层，任何人都可以造出属于自己的旗舰静电耳机。

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.

Thank you for sharing! Fancy meeting you here