[Painterspal]

Please help me get the best out of my Meridian 588 CD player!

I currently listen to my 580s using the headphone outlet of my Meridian 501 pre-amp, with less than excellent results, if fact I'd given up on them. Then, by chance I connected them to my computer and was amazed - they sounded better if obviously somewhat underpowered).

I really want to get the most out of my 588 and I'd made up my mind to buy a dedicated headphone amp - something like the Graham Slee Solo would be at the top of my affordable price range. But then I realised I could get the Stax 2050 set for similar money and suddenly, I had a dilemma on my hands... I need some more expert advice.

I listen to mainly classical but also to some indie-rock at times - so a mixed diet of stuff. I tried a friend's electro-stat headphones some years ago, so I have a feel for the kind of sound they produce and was very impressed with them, but they were one of the top of the range Stax models. Would these entry models be a better bet than my Sennheiser 580 + dedicated amp?

Many thanks for any help you can give.

 

[Don Quichotte]

I had the HD600 some time ago and I currently own the Stax 3030 combo. If I were you I would take the Stax in a heart beat, especially since you enjoy classical music.

Edit: There is just a small issue: my Stax headphones seem very picky with respect to the source and the interconnects, so there is a small risk that they will not mate so well with your gear, but I wouldn't overestimate this risk. They seem to like a warm and colorful source with smooth highs and a bit of midbass hump.

 

[dvse]

In my experience the SR-202 system offers considerably more interesting and engaging sound compared to HD580/650 out of low or middle class amps. Of course, there will be those who disagree ; p

 

[facelvega]

I listen to both those kinds of music, and I wouldn't hesitate for a second: the Stax by a mile. It's not too much of a risk, either, because if you don't like them for whatever reason, you'll be able to resell at only a small loss. (assuming you buy from Pricejapan or a similar site to get the best export price; some people prefer not to order from overseas, so they'll pay just as much for a slightly used pair that is already in their country)

 

[MaloS]

Go for the Stax. They will make complains about source material if it does not hold up though. (A nice neutral source will be right up the boat of the baby Stax, contrary to the suggestion from the 3030 user, because 3030 is a much colder headphone).

I am personally resisting temptations to get me SR-001 for transportable system.

 

[catscratch]

I have to go against the grain here. I distinctly prefer the HD600 over the SR-404 for classical music, since it has a more natural tone and tembre. Of course, now I have to qualify that load of rubbish with more statements like "I haven't heard the HD580" and "I've never owned the SR-202" but these headphones do have a family sound, and my point here is that I think the Senn HD580/600 family sound does better with classical music than the Lambdas (of which the 202/303/404 are the latest iteration).

But, I would say this: audition the SR-2050 system if you can; it does have a very unique sound, being an electrostat, and you may very well end up liking it a lot. For synergy purposes, the Lambdas have an elevated upper midrange, so if your system also has an elevated upper midrange, you could get some very nasty colorations. A warm system with a very full lower midrange tends to do very well with them, but don't make it too soupy, since these headphones will reveal a muddy system if there is one.

 

[Faust2D]

I had HD600 some long time ago and in my opinion they are inferior to SR-303/SR-404 for classical or any kind of chamber music.

HD600 had an annoying tendency to push small details way into the background so what you had as a result was seemingly very natural sound, but it frustrated me as I had to strain to hear any kind of background details.

As a side note, I tend to listen more analytically and never cared for "groove" or "fun" headphones or speakers. The only time I want that is when I put on some punk or grind, which is not very often nowadays.

 

[Painterspal]

Many thanks to all for your suggestions and advice - much appreciated.

I've discovered that there's actually a local Stax dealer near my home and hope to arrange an audition (amazing what you discover once you start looking seriously). I might also try the hear the 3050 option - I don't want to start craving an upgrade too quickly! I also hope to try my HD580s with a decent amp to get a better idea of their full potential.

It's going to be interesting...

 

[AudioCats]

stats are very sensitive to interconnects it seems, and it is not always the higher end the better. My modded SR-001 prefer tri-braid silver IC much more than the quad-braid silver (the quad-braid costs more and generally sound alot better in my dynamic set up.). You probably will never know untill you try out different cables.

 

[Painterspal]

I use Nordorst Blue Heaven at the moment, but I'm open to suggestions. From experience it's very much a case of doing some research then finding a helpful dealer and listening to a few to find the best combination.

What amazes me is that my Meridian 588 can sound so good driving my speakers but so bad through the headphone outlet of the same pre-amp!

By using headphones, I'm hoping to be able to really unlock the 588's potential to reveal the subtle orchestration detail in classical pieces, without loosing the ambient clues that set the musicians in a real space. I figure my source is capable of really good results and I just want to find a headphone solution that will really match its ability.

I was interested in the comment that the 3030 is a 'colder' headphone and that the cheaper 2050 might actually be preferable. I'd really welcome any further insight anyone can offer on the likely advantages/disadvantages of keeping my HD580s or choosing one of the electrostatic models.

Many thanks again for all the advice so far.

 

[MaloS]

Oh oops I confused the 202 based system or the 003 based system...I'd suggest going for the 003 based system since its sound is far more balanced than the Lambdas offer.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had HD600 some long time ago and in my opinion they are inferior to SR-303/SR-404 for classical or any kind of chamber music. HD600 had an annoying tendency to push small details way into the background so what you had as a result was seemingly very natural sound, but it frustrated me as I had to strain to hear any kind of background details. As a side note, I tend to listen more analytically and never cared for "groove" or "fun" headphones or speakers. The only time I want that is when I put on some punk or grind, which is not very often nowadays.

Yes, the HD600 does not shove microdetail in your face as much as the SR-404, and is not as detailed period. But, at the same time, the SR-404 has a very annoying upper midrange peak and a sucked-out lower midrange, which makes a lot of instruments sound unnatural. Everything has a sort of electric lustre and glow, but at the same time is also thinner, more brittle, and lacking in body.

I prefer the HD600 because it gets the basics right - tonal balance, tone, tembre, texture, impact, imaging, etc. The SR-404 doesn't. It is a better technical headphone to be sure - it's much faster, more detailed, has a better soundstage, and more air and space between each instrument. But, it doesn't get the basics right, and that's the first and foremost thing in my book. I'd rather listen to a less detailed realistic instrument than a very detailed unrealistic one.

Ultimately, neither one gets me there - the HD600 isn't good enough on technical merits. As far as what does - I'm still looking. The H2 is technically brilliant (detail, soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, bass, and impact are all completely out of this world in my current system), but it isn't the most natural sounding headphone either, at least not in my rig. With enough tweaking it might be, but I don't know if I'll end up keeping it either.

 

[Don Quichotte]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, the HD600 does not shove microdetail in your face as much as the SR-404, and is not as detailed period. But, at the same time, the SR-404 has a very annoying upper midrange peak and a sucked-out lower midrange, which makes a lot of instruments sound unnatural. Everything has a sort of electric lustre and glow, but at the same time is also thinner, more brittle, and lacking in body. I prefer the HD600 because it gets the basics right - tonal balance, tone, tembre, texture, impact, imaging, etc. The SR-404 doesn't. It is a better technical headphone to be sure - it's much faster, more detailed, has a better soundstage, and more air and space between each instrument. But, it doesn't get the basics right, and that's the first and foremost thing in my book. I'd rather listen to a less detailed realistic instrument than a very detailed unrealistic one. Ultimately, neither one gets me there - the HD600 isn't good enough on technical merits. As far as what does - I'm still looking. The H2 is technically brilliant (detail, soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, bass, and impact are all completely out of this world in my current system), but it isn't the most natural sounding headphone either, at least not in my rig. With enough tweaking it might be, but I don't know if I'll end up keeping it either.

Well, I agree, generally speaking, with your point of view, BUT:

1. the accurate retrieval of all the dynamic nuances, to name only one thing the Stax does better, is also a part of what I consider a realistic instrument reproduction. Same goes for the total independence of the instruments in a mix (meaning that they don't overshaddow each other, etc.) or of their harmonics and so on.

2. the tonal imbalances of the Stax headphones can be, as you know, compensated for - admittedly, up to a point - by careful system matching. If this is enough depends on the associated gear tried and on personal preference. On the other hand, while I haven't heard the HD600 in a truly high end system, I seriously doubt one could compensate enough for their inferior speed, detail, microdynamics, etc.

So, as I said before, I wouldn't hesitate between these two.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Quichotte /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I agree, generally speaking, with your point of view, BUT: 1. the accurate retrieval of all the dynamic nuances, to name only one thing the Stax does better, is also a part of what I consider a realistic instrument reproduction. Same goes for the total independence of the instruments in a mix (meaning that they don't overshaddow each other, etc.) or of their harmonics and so on. 2. the tonal imbalances of the Stax headphones can be, as you know, compensated for - admittedly, up to a point - by careful system matching. If this is enough depends on the associated gear tried and on personal preference. On the other hand, while I haven't heard the HD600 in a truly high end system, I seriously doubt one could compensate enough for their inferior speed, detail, microdynamics, etc. So, as I said before, I wouldn't hesitate between these two.

Good luck compensating for the upper midrange spike on Lambdas, its just too big to be reasonably dealt with and highly distracting with alot of music. Most people with Stax compensate by buying the Omega 2... (ya, thats system matching for sure xD).

HD600 in a high end system improves substantially. No it will never attain the speed of the Stax, but it certainly becomes very refined can with great control and resolution...but such a truly high end system will also buy you O2 + KGSS so we are back to the beginning.

That being said, I would not choose Lambda or HD600 for classical. There are cans with more finesse in the price range.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Quichotte /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I agree, generally speaking, with your point of view, BUT: 1. the accurate retrieval of all the dynamic nuances, to name only one thing the Stax does better, is also a part of what I consider a realistic instrument reproduction. Same goes for the total independence of the instruments in a mix (meaning that they don't overshaddow each other, etc.) or of their harmonics and so on. 2. the tonal imbalances of the Stax headphones can be, as you know, compensated for - admittedly, up to a point - by careful system matching. If this is enough depends on the associated gear tried and on personal preference. On the other hand, while I haven't heard the HD600 in a truly high end system, I seriously doubt one could compensate enough for their inferior speed, detail, microdynamics, etc. So, as I said before, I wouldn't hesitate between these two.

Yes, but while Stax gets dynamic range right in the literal meaning of the word, it cannot nail the tactile impact of each and every instrument. That impact is a big part of the presentation. If you hear a piano but cannot feel the percussive slam of the hammer hitting the string, then you feel that there is something missing from the presentation even if you cannot immediately hear it. Same goes for the cymbals, drums, and, well, just about any instrument with a significant tactile component. This to me is a big weakness of 'stats in general, not just the Lambda specifically, but, the Lambdas do fare worse here than other 'stats (i.e. HE90 or SR-003 to name a few).

Also, I've heard the SR-404 in many different systems, with different amps and sources. It has always had those midrange issues. They can be reduced, as you said, but only up to a point.

But, ultimately, it really does come down to preference. In my book, sins of addition are much more nasty than sins of subtraction - i.e. I can live with slightly rolled-off treble or a slightly lean bass, but I can't live with peaks in the midrange that mess up tone or peaks in the treble that add sibilance. I know a lot of people that are the other way around. Also, I need my cans to get the basics right before I move onto the more nuanced stuff. The SR-404 does very well with the more advanced aspects of sound reproduction, but the HD600 fares better with the basics.

Come to think of it, so very very few cans get the basics right that sometimes I have to wonder what the hell the industry is thinking. Certainly, most things in my stash don't get them right either.