[nick_charles]

Quote:

so any professors or instructors in here, how do you deal with it when you run across cheating in your class? I've been in this position a number of times and deal with it on an individual basis. Some times I report them to the academic dean and they're usually expelled if it do. If they're a student who has been applying themselves and all of a sudden cheated I usually just give them a zero on the exam/essay after a very stern lecture. I understand that doing such is unethical but have you found yourself in the same position?

Last year when I joined xxxxxxx College I found my first case of cheating. I followed the chain of command (Advisors/Academic affairs) and asked if I could just issue an informal warning. I was told in no uncertain terms that I could not, that any infraction had to be reported officially. However on one occaision since I have issued a warning for a case of cut and paste and failure to cite ( at all) . The task was to research a topic and build a web site and some students just cut and paste two sites into theirs, they had done the technical parts and the web searching though, so this was less egregious. I need to spell this stuff out more explicitly...certainly some of my colleagues do not report cheating and of course this lets some students do this repeatedly. At xxxxxxx College a first offence is just a shot across the bows and does not appear on the transcript, but the F does...

 

[grape ape]

Quote:

Quote:

so any professors or instructors in here, how do you deal with it when you run across cheating in your class? I've been in this position a number of times and deal with it on an individual basis. Some times I report them to the academic dean and they're usually expelled if it do. If they're a student who has been applying themselves and all of a sudden cheated I usually just give them a zero on the exam/essay after a very stern lecture. I understand that doing such is unethical but have you found yourself in the same position?

Last year when I joined xxxxxxx College I found my first case of cheating. I followed the chain of command (Advisors/Academic affairs) and asked if I could just issue an informal warning. I was told in no uncertain terms that I could not, that any infraction had to be reported officially. However on one occaision since I have issued a warning for a case of cut and paste and failure to cite ( at all) . The task was to research a topic and build a web site and some students just cut and paste two sites into theirs, they had done the technical parts and the web searching though, so this was less egregious. I need to spell this stuff out more explicitly...certainly some of my colleagues do not report cheating and of course this lets some students do this repeatedly. At xxxxxxx College a first offence is just a shot across the bows and does not appear on the transcript, but the F does...

Thanks, I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that feels that there is an ethical blurry area here. I've never asked my' institution what their policy is on the subject so I'm going to just continue with what I've been doing and if I'm ever exposed I'll probably only get a warning. Fortunately I've rarely run across cheaters in my programs.

 

[Khanate]

At my school if a professor reported cheating, the student got a F, he was kicked from school and barred from ever becoming an engineer in the province (engineering field).
 
Of course, this lead to the problem that the decision to report cheating had direct consequences, thus no teachers ever reported cheating above putting down a 0.

 

[odigg]

I think my response to cheating would depend on the cheating.  I'm inclined to say flunking the student is probably my limit for almost most instances of cheating.  If somebody duplicated an entire paper/assignment or paid somebody to write it for them I'd flunk them and probably be inclined to investigate further to see if the student was doing this on a regular basis - how I would investigate would depend on the school policies for cheating.  If a student duplicated something like a thesis I'd just report them.
 
It's difficult to make absolute statements about this.  Some schools have the "Cheating=Expulsion" policy for any cheating.  A colleague once told me about a student who did something quite innocent and forgivable, but their teacher was adamant that this student be punished according to school policy.  That whole situation was disgusting.  I hope the school had enough sense to knock some humanity into that professor.

 

[Calexico]

It's due to our utter lack of interest in anything and everything that leaves your mouth.  Except for that little bit of spit that lands on the kid in front. [/kidding]
But uh, seriously, I don't know about the college situation, but I don't think high school teachers can really expect us to care about what they're teaching.  I rarely cheat because it's easier not to, not because I have any investment in what happened in Napoleon's campaigns in Russia or how to conjugate the subjunctive in French.  But on the other hand, I have an English teacher who is very liberal-minded, disapproves of standardized testing and teaching, and lets us have a very free-flowing class, and it's complete bull too.  It's him and some other wankers practicing their chin-stroking while the rest of us sit, compulsively checking the clock that we forget is covered by construction paper (for the express purpose of pissing us off).  In the end, I do value the stuff I learn in school since it gives me a better view of the world than if I stayed at home and chilled all day, but the pace is painstakingly slow and and an enormous proportion of work is given simply to instill obedience (AKA graded homework assignments - education's evolutionary blunder)

 

[El_Doug]

wow, a grade can be hurt... big deal? 
 
cheating at the two universities I attended will only get you a 0 on an assignment if, say, you can prove that a single instance of plagiarism in a single paper was accidental.  anything else will get you a failure for the class, no less.  often, you will get a semester of academic suspension.  the latter is not just a threat - I know of two people in my junior year who were placed on suspension for cheating on an exam. 
 
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Quote:

no wonder your school is full of cheaters - there is barely any punishment! 
 
Quote:

I'm just in highschool, so i have no professor experiences. But the teachers at my HS give 0's for cheating on tests. Nothing else.

 

Well, its punishment enough in our school. Homework/assignment grades are 10 points each. Tests can range in the 100-200 point range, with essays being 100-300 point range. So one 0 on a test can really hurt your grade.

 

[Maverickmonk]

[size=10pt]Reading this thread, I realize I’ve been doing it wrong my entire life.[/size]
[size=10pt]I was raised to be very intrinsically motivated, especially pertaining to education. I was always taught to value the accruing of information and knowledge above pretty much everything else. I thank my parents for that, as they helped me build a broad base on which I find myself better prepared to learn specifics on specialized subjects.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]All through high school I valued the knowledge more than the grade. If I knew the material already, or found it boring, I would often neglect to do the homework. I would take courses and receive A's on all the exams, but nearly (or actually) fail the class out of my ignorance to play the rules of the system. I loaded up on difficult classes, and again, neglected much of the work, openly admitting to the teacher that my only goal in the class was a high score on the A.P. Exams. I would take an average high school science course, nearly fail the course, but design and program a basic autonomous robot nearly from scratch for science fair. While I am proud to have gone through school and learned on subjects from programming, physics, literature, and psychology, often in my free time above & beyond the goals of the class. I found myself repeatedly unrewarded for these goals, and often earning scorn from others. My point is, the secondary education system in America doesn't reward the pursuit of knowledge at all, and it rewards the grade. I have had several teachers who understand and support knowledge over points, but they have been few and far between. I learned all these things, nearly managed to extend high school into a 5 year endeavor, did summer school, and graduated with a class rank in the bottom. Ok, I'm sorry for "tooting my own horn" a bit there, in reality I'm pretty much a moron for not just giving the school what it wanted and moving on with my life, and I was merely lucky that my excessive nerdiness allowed me to pull myself through to an  average state-school university by the skin of my teeth. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]Now on to current life, and my recent realizations. My roommate in my freshman year of college however cheated his way to the top, slacking, taking the easy courses, and managed to graduate 6th in his class and as the president of NHS. I hoped for some sort of justice when he started failing horribly during the first half of the semester, but the human mind's ability to adapt has proven me wrong again. He's doing acceptably well in all his classes now, because he cajoles his friend to spend her time doing all his homework, and turns in his cousin's old papers.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]I had hoped these people would also fail in the "real-world" but now it seems even more evident this is not the case. I've downgraded my outlook on society from "seriously in trouble" to "absolutely screwed" as far as the pursuit of knowledge is concerned (granted, it has already reached that level in many other respects). As such I am trying to adapt my goals more towards giving the school the attention it seems to demand from me on boring, worthless topics which would be better taught from a wikipedia page, in reward for the occasional stimulating essay topic or class discussion.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]This is just the viewpoint of a college freshman, and a liberal arts major (communications/journalism) for that matter, so feel free to take this with as many grains (or teaspoons) of salt as desired.[/size]

 

[grape ape]

Quote:

[size=10pt]Reading this thread, I realize I’ve been doing it wrong my entire life.[/size]
[size=10pt]I was raised to be very intrinsically motivated, especially pertaining to education. I was always taught to value the accruing of information and knowledge above pretty much everything else. I thank my parents for that, as they helped me build a broad base on which I find myself better prepared to learn specifics on specialized subjects.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]All through high school I valued the knowledge more than the grade. If I knew the material already, or found it boring, I would often neglect to do the homework. I would take courses and receive A's on all the exams, but nearly (or actually) fail the class out of my ignorance to play the rules of the system. I loaded up on difficult classes, and again, neglected much of the work, openly admitting to the teacher that my only goal in the class was a high score on the A.P. Exams. I would take an average high school science course, nearly fail the course, but design and program a basic autonomous robot nearly from scratch for science fair. While I am proud to have gone through school and learned on subjects from programming, physics, literature, and psychology, often in my free time above & beyond the goals of the class. I found myself repeatedly unrewarded for these goals, and often earning scorn from others. My point is, the secondary education system in America doesn't reward the pursuit of knowledge at all, and it rewards the grade. I have had several teachers who understand and support knowledge over points, but they have been few and far between. I learned all these things, nearly managed to extend high school into a 5 year endeavor, did summer school, and graduated with a class rank in the bottom. Ok, I'm sorry for "tooting my own horn" a bit there, in reality I'm pretty much a moron for not just giving the school what it wanted and moving on with my life, and I was merely lucky that my excessive nerdiness allowed me to pull myself through to an  average state-school university by the skin of my teeth. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]Now on to current life, and my recent realizations. My roommate in my freshman year of college however cheated his way to the top, slacking, taking the easy courses, and managed to graduate 6th in his class and as the president of NHS. I hoped for some sort of justice when he started failing horribly during the first half of the semester, but the human mind's ability to adapt has proven me wrong again. He's doing acceptably well in all his classes now, because he cajoles his friend to spend her time doing all his homework, and turns in his cousin's old papers.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]I had hoped these people would also fail in the "real-world" but now it seems even more evident this is not the case. I've downgraded my outlook on society from "seriously in trouble" to "absolutely screwed" as far as the pursuit of knowledge is concerned (granted, it has already reached that level in many other respects). As such I am trying to adapt my goals more towards giving the school the attention it seems to demand from me on boring, worthless topics which would be better taught from a wikipedia page, in reward for the occasional stimulating essay topic or class discussion.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]This is just the viewpoint of a college freshman, and a liberal arts major (communications/journalism) for that matter, so feel free to take this with as many grains (or teaspoons) of salt as desired.[/size]

He still has to live with himself. No matter how much of a front he puts on he knows he's a fraud ultimately. Or at least that's how I'd feel if I cheated my way through my undergraduate or graduate's degree. I worked my ass off in order to no feel like a fraud.

 

[Xaborus]

Quote:

Quote:

[size=10pt]Reading this thread, I realize I’ve been doing it wrong my entire life.[/size]
[size=10pt]I was raised to be very intrinsically motivated, especially pertaining to education. I was always taught to value the accruing of information and knowledge above pretty much everything else. I thank my parents for that, as they helped me build a broad base on which I find myself better prepared to learn specifics on specialized subjects.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]All through high school I valued the knowledge more than the grade. If I knew the material already, or found it boring, I would often neglect to do the homework. I would take courses and receive A's on all the exams, but nearly (or actually) fail the class out of my ignorance to play the rules of the system. I loaded up on difficult classes, and again, neglected much of the work, openly admitting to the teacher that my only goal in the class was a high score on the A.P. Exams. I would take an average high school science course, nearly fail the course, but design and program a basic autonomous robot nearly from scratch for science fair. While I am proud to have gone through school and learned on subjects from programming, physics, literature, and psychology, often in my free time above & beyond the goals of the class. I found myself repeatedly unrewarded for these goals, and often earning scorn from others. My point is, the secondary education system in America doesn't reward the pursuit of knowledge at all, and it rewards the grade. I have had several teachers who understand and support knowledge over points, but they have been few and far between. I learned all these things, nearly managed to extend high school into a 5 year endeavor, did summer school, and graduated with a class rank in the bottom. Ok, I'm sorry for "tooting my own horn" a bit there, in reality I'm pretty much a moron for not just giving the school what it wanted and moving on with my life, and I was merely lucky that my excessive nerdiness allowed me to pull myself through to an  average state-school university by the skin of my teeth. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]Now on to current life, and my recent realizations. My roommate in my freshman year of college however cheated his way to the top, slacking, taking the easy courses, and managed to graduate 6th in his class and as the president of NHS. I hoped for some sort of justice when he started failing horribly during the first half of the semester, but the human mind's ability to adapt has proven me wrong again. He's doing acceptably well in all his classes now, because he cajoles his friend to spend her time doing all his homework, and turns in his cousin's old papers.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]I had hoped these people would also fail in the "real-world" but now it seems even more evident this is not the case. I've downgraded my outlook on society from "seriously in trouble" to "absolutely screwed" as far as the pursuit of knowledge is concerned (granted, it has already reached that level in many other respects). As such I am trying to adapt my goals more towards giving the school the attention it seems to demand from me on boring, worthless topics which would be better taught from a wikipedia page, in reward for the occasional stimulating essay topic or class discussion.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]This is just the viewpoint of a college freshman, and a liberal arts major (communications/journalism) for that matter, so feel free to take this with as many grains (or teaspoons) of salt as desired.[/size]

He still has to live with himself. No matter how much of a front he puts on he knows he's a fraud ultimately. Or at least that's how I'd feel if I cheated my way through my undergraduate or graduate's degree. I worked my ass off in order to no feel like a fraud.

I don't get why all these people feel guilty for cheating?
 
Again, it might just be because of where I've grown up, or it might just be my generation, but you shouldn't feel guilty for cheating.
 
IMO this is a dog-eat-dog world, and to get to the top your going to have to take shortcuts.
 
Almost every olympic athlete uses some form of drugs to enhance there performance. Usually undetectable steroids, or HGH (human growth hormone). Pretty much EVERYONE uses creatine monohydrate these days. Even i do, at 16. Then again, creatine monohydrate is not a drug, and i find that it has become demonized by purely ignorant people, but that is a different subject. (For those of you who are worried, creatine monohydrate has been the among the most studied supplements for 30 years, and has never been proven to be harmful. Additionally, every time you eat meat/fish, your getting natural creatine. Compare this to prescription drugs, which kill more than recreational drugs) 
 
My point is, its almost impossible to get to the top these days without doing something "shady", because the majority of your opponents/rivals will also be doing shady things. 
 
Besides, does it really make any logical sense to pay for education? Anybody who knows anything about history can see the faults in that system. Schools start to inflate grades to attract customers. 
 
Then again, my definition of cheating is giving a friend an answer on a 10 point worksheet. I would never cheat on a test. 

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Then again, my definition of cheating is giving a friend an answer on a 10 point worksheet. I would never cheat on a test. 

 
Risk/reward ratio issue, or is it a moral stance? If the latter, I'd love to hear the rationale for that.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

I don't get why all these people feel guilty for cheating?
 

Thankfully, many of us do.

 

[mcnoiserdc]

You've got some real problems, lol!
 People do not opt for being honest because it is the easiest way to win in life. People opt to not cheat, because it is not the right thing. Because when someone cheats there is someone paying for it. Nothing is free. 
 
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

[size=10pt]Reading this thread, I realize I’ve been doing it wrong my entire life.[/size]
[size=10pt]I was raised to be very intrinsically motivated, especially pertaining to education. I was always taught to value the accruing of information and knowledge above pretty much everything else. I thank my parents for that, as they helped me build a broad base on which I find myself better prepared to learn specifics on specialized subjects.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]All through high school I valued the knowledge more than the grade. If I knew the material already, or found it boring, I would often neglect to do the homework. I would take courses and receive A's on all the exams, but nearly (or actually) fail the class out of my ignorance to play the rules of the system. I loaded up on difficult classes, and again, neglected much of the work, openly admitting to the teacher that my only goal in the class was a high score on the A.P. Exams. I would take an average high school science course, nearly fail the course, but design and program a basic autonomous robot nearly from scratch for science fair. While I am proud to have gone through school and learned on subjects from programming, physics, literature, and psychology, often in my free time above & beyond the goals of the class. I found myself repeatedly unrewarded for these goals, and often earning scorn from others. My point is, the secondary education system in America doesn't reward the pursuit of knowledge at all, and it rewards the grade. I have had several teachers who understand and support knowledge over points, but they have been few and far between. I learned all these things, nearly managed to extend high school into a 5 year endeavor, did summer school, and graduated with a class rank in the bottom. Ok, I'm sorry for "tooting my own horn" a bit there, in reality I'm pretty much a moron for not just giving the school what it wanted and moving on with my life, and I was merely lucky that my excessive nerdiness allowed me to pull myself through to an  average state-school university by the skin of my teeth. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]Now on to current life, and my recent realizations. My roommate in my freshman year of college however cheated his way to the top, slacking, taking the easy courses, and managed to graduate 6th in his class and as the president of NHS. I hoped for some sort of justice when he started failing horribly during the first half of the semester, but the human mind's ability to adapt has proven me wrong again. He's doing acceptably well in all his classes now, because he cajoles his friend to spend her time doing all his homework, and turns in his cousin's old papers.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]I had hoped these people would also fail in the "real-world" but now it seems even more evident this is not the case. I've downgraded my outlook on society from "seriously in trouble" to "absolutely screwed" as far as the pursuit of knowledge is concerned (granted, it has already reached that level in many other respects). As such I am trying to adapt my goals more towards giving the school the attention it seems to demand from me on boring, worthless topics which would be better taught from a wikipedia page, in reward for the occasional stimulating essay topic or class discussion.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]This is just the viewpoint of a college freshman, and a liberal arts major (communications/journalism) for that matter, so feel free to take this with as many grains (or teaspoons) of salt as desired.[/size]

He still has to live with himself. No matter how much of a front he puts on he knows he's a fraud ultimately. Or at least that's how I'd feel if I cheated my way through my undergraduate or graduate's degree. I worked my ass off in order to no feel like a fraud.

I don't get why all these people feel guilty for cheating?
 
Again, it might just be because of where I've grown up, or it might just be my generation, but you shouldn't feel guilty for cheating.
 
IMO this is a dog-eat-dog world, and to get to the top your going to have to take shortcuts.
 
Almost every olympic athlete uses some form of drugs to enhance there performance. Usually undetectable steroids, or HGH (human growth hormone). Pretty much EVERYONE uses creatine monohydrate these days. Even i do, at 16. Then again, creatine monohydrate is not a drug, and i find that it has become demonized by purely ignorant people, but that is a different subject. (For those of you who are worried, creatine monohydrate has been the among the most studied supplements for 30 years, and has never been proven to be harmful. Additionally, every time you eat meat/fish, your getting natural creatine. Compare this to prescription drugs, which kill more than recreational drugs) 
 
My point is, its almost impossible to get to the top these days without doing something "shady", because the majority of your opponents/rivals will also be doing shady things. 
 
Besides, does it really make any logical sense to pay for education? Anybody who knows anything about history can see the faults in that system. Schools start to inflate grades to attract customers. 
 
Then again, my definition of cheating is giving a friend an answer on a 10 point worksheet. I would never cheat on a test. 

 

[Mr.Sir]

 
Quote:

 
 
Almost every olympic athlete uses some form of drugs to enhance there performance.

Would you care to provide some evidence to back this up?

 

[Xaborus]

Quote:

 
Quote:

 
 
Almost every olympic athlete uses some form of drugs to enhance there performance.

Would you care to provide some evidence to back this up?

Well of course there is no physical evidence, and of course I'm not speaking from experience. But being part of a bodybuilding community, and highschool wrestling, you get to see the dirty side of sports.
Here is a small article that is about a red flag being raised for undetectable steroids. Look, if there wasn't a demand for these undetectable steroids, they wouldn't exist. Its that simple.
 
I think alot of you who are skeptical should watch the documentary Bigger Stronger Faster. If you have netflix its a streaming movie. Its just a small documentary that will start to open your eyes about drug use among athletes. 
 
Ulgh, there was a quote from a famous ex olympic runner who said that steroids use is very common.. but i cant find the quote. Bleh. 

 

[Xaborus]

BTW who saw the national news broadcast over education today? 
 
Looks like China is now the smartest/most creative country in the world 

 
(apparently the tests not only test "smarts?" for the lack of a better word, but also tested problem solving and creativity)