SRT-4 at the track at Infineon Raceway
May 5, 2003 at 7:09 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 24

zbuddah

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I just got back from a cool experience. I signed up for a contest and won tickets to the Infineon Raceway AMA Super Bike Challenge and a chance to win the car. Well after getting lost and taking some detours me and a buddy finally go there in time to register. After they gave us some basic racing techniques (like threshold braking, high low high?), and then I got to take the srt-4 out on the track they made.

Let me tell you this car burns tires like hell; hit the gas on a turn, boom smoke. Its got more power then I could see myself using, I'll always want more but using?. Taking corners you can expect some over steer (they say loose) but hey you learn to use it. The track was setup with some really sharp turns, and the car handled it nicely, could be better but hey what do you expect for 20k. The power was great it felt a little laggy at the start but when it starts to pick up it really REALLY picks up. Another plus was that I was expecting a heavy laggy feeling with the car, the same feeling associated with a heavy car, but nope I didn't really feel anything of that sort, but it also didn't feel sporty light either. The stick shift, wow talk about a short throw, its short. The exhaust note was just fine, my buddy didn't like but I loved it, the sound had no resemblance to a coffee can exhaust you hear from ricers, but it had that throaty sound it, similar to the American v8 muscles but now where as loud as say a flow master. I loved the sound; I guess you can say it sounds loud when it is actually doing something. Some people complained about the seats, but I found just fine, and that it had nice grip to it, now on the other hand the back seats, um lets just say slip and slide, especailly during my buddy’s run. Nice touches was the temperature gauge (you'll know it when you see it in action) and the boost gauge. I was pretty impressed overall with the car.

I guess my only complaint was that I couldn't feel any feedback through the car really, where's the fun in that? In my car I could feel the feedback through the pedals, in my buddy's S4 I could feel the feedback through his stick, but with the srt-4 everything was smooth. The view from the car could be better, most of the cars I’ve been in have had a horrible view, the dash was too high and too obtrusive or ride height was a little high for a car, or the rearview was too small. Only view I've really liked was from a 3rd gen prelude, a very broad view at that. Also another thing I noticed was that car dives a bit coming into corners. Other than that the car could use stickier tires, since everyone was pretty much pulling smoke or squealing, maybe they have lead feet in 1st gear.

Fastest time I’ve seen from normal people was 35.5xx seconds. The times ranged around 40 seconds. The rules go as if you hit a cone you get a 2 second penalty, I hit 39 seconds and my buddy hit 41 seconds, I suck :p. The last run was done by some volunteers from Wisconsin for Buell, the guy zoomed through the track at 32 seconds short.

I guess my only regret was being to afraid to push the beast through the tight track! but other that that I had a great time and something that in my circle don’t get to do at all.

Uh yeah and I didn’t win the car but still today was a good day (think tomahawk, bikes, bikini contest, autofest, and track time).
 
May 5, 2003 at 8:44 AM Post #2 of 24
Very cool.

But the SRT-4... A sad attempt to out-"rice" our superior machines. Gwa ha ha ha ha!
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May 5, 2003 at 8:58 PM Post #3 of 24
thats cool... i love the new SRT-4, it would definitely be at the top of my list as the car to get when i go off to college if only it weren't for the horrible gas mileage. but hey, when you have o-60 in 5.5 seconds for an economy car, there has to be some trade off i guess
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May 5, 2003 at 10:03 PM Post #4 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman
Very cool.

But the SRT-4... A sad attempt to out-"rice" our superior machines. Gwa ha ha ha ha!
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Actually, it looks like it pretty much has done that, at least in it's price bracket. Apparently it's the quickest car available in the US under $20k, and it beats both the Porsche Boxster S and Nissan 350Z in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

If it wasn't for those damn racing seats I'd be tempted. Unfortunately I've been in a Viper (the seats are the same) and it was anything but comfortable.
 
May 6, 2003 at 12:08 AM Post #5 of 24
The SRT-4 looks quite nice, although reliability is a big concern. How will the car hold up in the long term? The turbo is quite large, and neon engines aren't exactly known to be bulletproof. How built can an engine be in a 20k car?
 
May 6, 2003 at 1:14 AM Post #6 of 24
SRT-4 w/ Short Ram intake

331522_35_full.jpg


SRT-4 w/ Hallman MBC, boost set to 15PSI

331522_34_full.jpg


SRT-4 w/ Hallman MBC, boost set to 18PSI

331522_33_full.jpg


Not bad for less than ~ 200 bucks in mods!!

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The horsepower wars are comin' back boys!! BMW just announced a competitor to the Supra.. Inline-6 Twin-Turbo
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Doubt it will suprass (hehe) the Supra, however.
 
May 6, 2003 at 1:17 AM Post #7 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman
Very cool.

But the SRT-4... A sad attempt to out-"rice" our superior machines. Gwa ha ha ha ha!



heh, I can hardly see the srt-4 as a riced up attempt especailly after driving that monster. There's actually form and function to most of the stuff on the srt-4. The temp gauge really actually moves up and down reading actual coolant temps, The hood scoop actually dumps cool air straight onto the engine, the intercooler is huge. It also certainly sounds nothing like a riced up car with its throaty exhaust. I just can't deny its power under the hood.
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eh i guess i just thought the srt-4 was fast and fun drive. Though it could use a little bit better handling, what car coudln't?
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Quote:

Originally posted by andrzejpw
The SRT-4 looks quite nice, although reliability is a big concern. How will the car hold up in the long term? The turbo is quite large, and neon engines aren't exactly known to be bulletproof. How built can an engine be in a 20k car?


There's Cast Iron in that engine, and I don't know exactly how many pounds of boost its running under, but I'm quite sure it can handle the boost and probably a little more. I am still concerned with it's reliability, as I am with any other non-honda non-toyota car.
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Quote:

Originally posted by djgustashaw

thats cool... i love the new SRT-4, it would definitely be at the top of my list as the car to get when i go off to college if only it weren't for the horrible gas mileage. but hey, when you have o-60 in 5.5 seconds for an economy car, there has to be some trade off i guess



yep if you gave me 20k for a brand new car it would probably be an srt-4 at this point atleast until i get to test drive an svt focus. Heard the focus had great handling.
 
May 6, 2003 at 1:40 AM Post #8 of 24
I'm not sure, but I think the boost is at 12 psi stock.

btw, the supra is no longer here in the US, as the mkIVs were last here in 1998.
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Why do they have to keep taking away the high performance cars and giving us poor subsitutes?

Ex: 300zx -> 350z. The 300zx had it in 5.0 sec flat.
Mazda Rx-7 -> Rx-8. Sure, the 8 isn't meant to replace the 7, but there's just something about those rear doors that I just hate.

Will the 2 door sports car make a reappearance?
 
May 6, 2003 at 10:35 AM Post #11 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by andrzejpw
I'm not sure, but I think the boost is at 12 psi stock.

btw, the supra is no longer here in the US, as the mkIVs were last here in 1998.
frown.gif
Why do they have to keep taking away the high performance cars and giving us poor subsitutes?


Yes, however most cars use the Supra as a performance standard still to this day
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Ronin:

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?p..._code=09295784
 
May 6, 2003 at 1:30 PM Post #12 of 24
The neon is a heavy vehicle?

It oversteered?

No offense but did you even drive one? It is a front wheel drive, light (2900 lbs), car with reletively good power output. It is almost phsyically impossible, to get it to NOT understeer under power, or even steer neutrally for that matter, under no power.

I drove one 2 weeks ago, and while I was suprised by how good it felt (for being a neon) none of the charecteristics you described were present.

I've been into cars for a long time, and I've never ever had a front wheel drive car capable of oversteering. It defies physics for one thing... What would be pushing the front of the car around? With no power to the back wheels and all the weight up front, oversteering is impossible.

I'm not going to call the SRT4 crap, because for 20 grand it actually is a decent car with good power. Like I said, I was suprised by the car when I checked it out. That said, you can do better with 20 grand used... or spend an extra 5 and get a WRX.

And for anyone about to say "What, a wrx? I saw a video where a neon beat a wrx on a highway or it has better 0-60 or more hp blah blah blah", don't bother. The WRX might be a tad slower, but that is easily remedied, and over all a better car for the twisties.

andrzejpw, The mid 90s cars are still the best if you ask me. Rx7 and Supras are great. High powered, well engineered, rear wheel drive true sport cars for the street. I have a 93 rx7 and I would never ever replace it with an RX8 (though, I still want one
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).

Good news though! The MKV supra is on the drawing board for 2006ish. As is a new RX7 but it isn't greenlighted yet.

Again, the SRT4 is a pretty good car for 20 grand, and allthough it suprised me, it still left me with a "meh" feeling.

Just my .02.
 
May 6, 2003 at 1:36 PM Post #13 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by zbuddah




There's Cast Iron in that engine, and I don't know exactly how many pounds of boost its running under, but I'm quite sure it can handle the boost and probably a little more. I am still concerned with it's reliability, as I am with any other non-honda non-toyota car.
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What does cast iron have to do with the engine holding up? Cast iron is heavier.

When an engine blows, it isn't the block that goes. It is the gaskets and seals usually. When you are talking about a force induction car, the first thing to worry about is oil leaks caused from high boost. From the gaskets and turbo lines. From there, more problems will arise from loss of oil, heat, and over all abuse that the engine will take.

A cast iron block means its cheaper and a heavier replacement for aluminium, not strength
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You'd be hard pressed to find any of the best engines in the world made of cast iron.
 
May 6, 2003 at 11:52 PM Post #14 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by TWIFOSP
The neon is a heavy vehicle?

It oversteered?

No offense but did you even drive one? It is a front wheel drive, light (2900 lbs), car with reletively good power output. It is almost phsyically impossible, to get it to NOT understeer under power, or even steer neutrally for that matter, under no power.

I drove one 2 weeks ago, and while I was suprised by how good it felt (for being a neon) none of the charecteristics you described were present.

I've been into cars for a long time, and I've never ever had a front wheel drive car capable of oversteering. It defies physics for one thing... What would be pushing the front of the car around? With no power to the back wheels and all the weight up front, oversteering is impossible.

I'm not going to call the SRT4 crap, because for 20 grand it actually is a decent car with good power. Like I said, I was suprised by the car when I checked it out. That said, you can do better with 20 grand used... or spend an extra 5 and get a WRX.

And for anyone about to say "What, a wrx? I saw a video where a neon beat a wrx on a highway or it has better 0-60 or more hp blah blah blah", don't bother. The WRX might be a tad slower, but that is easily remedied, and over all a better car for the twisties.

Again, the SRT4 is a pretty good car for 20 grand, and allthough it suprised me, it still left me with a "meh" feeling.

Just my .02.


No offense taken just let me get an extra 2 cents this is about all the change I have left
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ok ok ok lets see hrm i'm not a car expert, but this was what I noticed while driving the car. The instructor told me to brake into the turns to get a bigger contact patch on the front wheels he said that while the contact patch on the front wheels grew the contact patch on the back wheels would shrink, making the back end want to swing around, giving me the oversteer. Apparently this was how i was suppose to take the srt-4 through the turns. If oversteer isn't where the back tires loose grip and the front tires gain grip and the back end wants to swing than I'm confused. Cuz this was just exactly what the instructor explained to me. (but after reading back the post again I guess we missunderstood each other, or i wasn't detailed enough
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). I wasn't able to get the back end to swing as nicely as some other people did but remeber i suck :p.

I guess I feel that this car is not to be dissed at 20k.
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No the srt-4 was not heavy, it didn't have that laggy feeling associated with heavy cars so its not heavy but its not sporty light either, i've driven lighter cars. But the car was still gave me a fun run. lighter = more fun for me.

But I have to agree with you that older super cars are much more to my liking even though I've never driven them, the sexyness of a stock supra even the 2nd gen rx7 looks retro good to me. See one at a school all the time.

"A cast iron block means its cheaper and a heavier replacement for aluminium, not strength" Ah i see, i just assumed it was strong cuz all the v8 muscles has them
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Darth Minidisc,

I didn't notice any torque steer at all, these things just takes off in the direction your wheels are pointing. equal length half shafts
 
May 7, 2003 at 2:21 AM Post #15 of 24
Hehe, just a semantic mix up.

Technically that isn't over steer, allthought it shares the same properties of oversteer. Huh?!?

Let me splain:

Oversteer and understeer are terms used to describe the cars behavoir under power.

Anything else, and its just sliding. What you were doing was sliding into a turn to line up for the best possible exit, because that is all a FWD car is good at... exit speed.

*car geek mode engaged*

Oversteer occurs when a rear wheel drive vehicle turns into a corner and still applies power. The reason oversteer occurs is 2 fold. 1, the chassis leans to one side, the side with momemtum. This causes more grip on the outside (outside refering to the side outside of the direction of movement) of the car. When power is applied, that side has more grip causing the car to turn in more to the side. The second property of oversteer comes from more wieght being up front in cars that do not have a 50/50 weight balance. This is pretty simplified obviously, but you get the gist. It isn't just when the back tires come loose and the front tires grip. As mentioned, this shares the same properties as an oversteer, but since you are technically sliding and out of power, its not a steer at all.

A front wheel drive car, can not technically oversteer.

What you were doing, short of sliding, was proper technique though. Enter the corner fast, brake to the highest point in the curve (apex) while turning in, line up for the exit and gun it.

A rear wheel drive car would approach the same corner by braking first, turning in neautrally, applying power at or just before apex and exiting out under power. This is typically a faster way of cornering.

ok enough of that...

As for the engine materials...

Older big blocks are made of cast iron yes. But find a more modern, high powered, lighter big block v8 and you'll find it made of forged or milled aluminium. LS1s and LS6s are 2 examples. Both made by chevy to go into the c5 vette and z06.

As far as the block damage is concerned cast iron is actually more brittle and more prone to damage if a rod is thrown.

However as mentioned, when it comes to engine failures, while the block might be damaged, it hardly ever plays a factor in breaking points. Especially with forced induction (boosted) cars.

Second gen rx7's are pretty... but I am fond of the 3rd gen personally.

http://dh3.doggus.com/~nef/rx7/sidefront.jpg
http://dh3.doggus.com/~nef/rx7/sideback.jpg

My baby
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