Speaker cable help.
Sep 12, 2011 at 6:19 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 9

JRG1990

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Whats the best construction of speaker cables, there are loads of sites saying different things,
This site http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/spkcbl_e.html , says solid core is better and all multi strand cables in pvc jackets are useless, here http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_216.html says use a cable with a high strand count, here http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm says it doesn't matter?.
I need to buy some new speaker cord because i've moved my amp closer to my speakers and my old cords will be too long, I will only need 1metre lengths, my speakers are 4ohms.
 
My choices are,
 
http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/621/ixos-xhs706-w-gamma-geometry-speaker-cable
http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2391/fisual-super-pearl-2-5mm-speaker-cable-black
http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2944/qed-xt-evolution-speaker-cable
http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/1602/van-damme-studio-grade-blue-speaker-cable-2-x-4mm
 
All quite different in construction.
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 7:53 PM Post #2 of 9
Yes they are all different in construction.

Now look at the claims; they're all quite similar, aren't they?

How can that be?

How can a multitude of constructions all promise the same thing?

Shouldn't it be that one of them is right and the rest wrong? It is also possible that all of them are wrong.

If your cables are too long, cut them to the length you want and solder the connectors back on. Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes and maybe a few cents of solder.
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 9:06 PM Post #3 of 9
My old cables are crimped terminated and heat shrunk, and the cost of all the soldering stuff and the hassle I may as well get new cables, I was hoping to make a more informed choice this time but it seems impossible.
 
Sep 13, 2011 at 2:33 AM Post #4 of 9
Quoting John Dunlavy, maker of some of the finest speakers in the world:

Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:08:50 -0500
From: 102365.2026@compuserve.com (Dunlavy Audio Labs)
To: bass@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (bass group)
Subject: Cable Nonsense (Long)

Having read some of the recent comments on several of the Internet audio groups, concerning audible differences between interconnect and loudspeaker cables, I could not resist adding some thoughts about the subject as a concerned engineer possessing credible credentials.

To begin, several companies design and manufacture loudspeaker and interconnect cables which they proudly claim possess optimized electrical properties for the audiophile applications intended. However, accurate measurements of several popularly selling cables reveal significant differences that call into question the technical goals of their designer. These differences also question the capability of the companies to perform accurate measurements of important cable performance properties. For example, any company not possessing a precision C-L-R bridge, a Vector Impedance Meter, a Network Analyzer, a precision waveform and impulse generator, wideband precision oscilloscopes, etc., probably needs to purchase them if they are truly serious about designing audio cables that provide premium performance.

The measurable properties of loudspeaker cables that are important to their performance include characteristic impedance (series inductance and parallel capacitance per unit length), loss resistance (including additional resistance due to skin-effect losses versus frequency), dielectric losses versus frequency (loss tangent, etc.), velocity-of-propagation factor, overall loss versus frequency into different impedance loads, etc.

Measurable properties of interconnect cables include all of the above, with the addition of those properties of the dielectric material that contribute to microphonic noise in the presence of ambient vibration, noise, etc. (in combination with a D.C. off-set created by a pre-amp output circuit, etc.).

While competent cable manufacturers should be aware of these measurements and the need to make them during the design of their cables, the raw truth is that most do not! Proof of this can be found in the absurd buzzard-salve, snake-oil and meaningless advertising claims found in almost all magazine ads and product literature for audiophile cables. Perhaps worse, very few of the expensive, high-tech appearing cables we have measured appear to have been designed in accordance with the well-known laws and principles taught by proper physics and engineering disciplines. (Where are the costly Government Consumer Protection people who are supposed to protect innocent members of the public by identifying and policing questionable performance claims, misleading specifications, etc.?) --- Caveat Emptor!

For example, claiming that copper wire is directional, that slow-moving electrons create distortion as they haphazardly carry the signal along a wire, that cables store and release energy as signals propagate along them, that a final energy component (improperly labeled as Joules) is the measure of the tonality of cables, ad nauseum, are but a few of the non-entities used in advertisements to describe cable performance.

Another pet peeve of mine is the concept of a special configuration included with a loudspeaker cable which is advertised as being able to terminate the cable in a matter intended to deliver more accurate tonality, better imaging, lower noise, etc. The real truth is that this special configuration contains nothing more than a simple, inexpensive network intended to prevent poorly-designed amplifiers, with a too-high slew-rate (obtained at the expense of instability caused by too much inverse-feedback) from oscillating when connected to a loudspeaker through a low-loss, low-impedance cable. When this box appears at the loudspeaker-end of a cable, it seldom contains nothing more than a Zobel network, which is usually a series resistor-capacitor network, connector in parallel with the wires of the cable. If it is at the amplifier-end of the cable, it is probably either a parallel resistor-inductor network, connected in series with the cable conductors (or a simple cylindrical ferrite sleeve covering both conductors). But the proper place for such a network, if it is needed to insure amplifier stability and prevent high-frequency oscillations, is within the amplifier - not along the loudspeaker cable. Hmmm!

Having said all this, are there really any significant audible differences between most cables that can be consistently identified by experienced listeners? The answer is simple: very seldom! Those who claim otherwise do not fully grasp the power of the old Placebo-Effect - which is very alive and well among even the most well-intentioned listeners. The placebo-effect renders audible signatures easy to detect and describe - if the listener knows which cable is being heard. But, take away this knowledge during blind or double-blind listening comparisons and the differences either disappear completely or hover close to the level of random guessing. Speaking as a competent professional engineer, designer and manufacturer, nothing would please me and my company's staff more than being able to design a cable which consistently yielded a positive score during blind listening comparisons against other cables. But it only rarely happens - if we wish to be honest!

Oh yes, we have heard of golden-eared audiophiles who claim to be able to consistently identify huge, audible differences between cables. But when these experts have visited our facility and were put to the test under carefully-controlled conditions, they invariably failed to yield a score any better than chance. For example, when led to believe that three popular cables were being compared, varying in size from a high-quality 12 AWG ZIP-CORD to a high-tech looking cable with a diameter exceeding an inch, the largest and sexiest looking cable always scored best - even though the CABLES WERE NEVER CHANGED and they listened to the ZIP Cord the entire time.

Sorry, but I do not buy the claims of those who say they can always audibly identify differences between cables, even when the comparisons are properly controlled to ensure that the identity of the cable being heard is not known by the listener. We have accomplished too many true blind comparisons with listeners possessing the right credentials, including impeccable hearing attributes, to know that real, audible differences seldom exist - if the comparisons are properly implemented to eliminate other causes such as system interactions with cables, etc.

Indeed, during these comparisons (without changing cables), some listeners were able to describe in great detail the big differences they thought they heard in bass, high-end detail, etc. (Of course, the participants were never told the NAUGHTY TRUTH, lest they become an enemy for life!)

So why does a reputable company like DAL engage in the design and manufacture of audiophile cables? The answer is simple: since significant measurable differences do exist and because well-known and understood transmission line theory defines optimum relationships between such parameters as cable impedance and the impedance of the load (loudspeaker), the capacitance of an interconnect and the input impedance of the following stage, why not design cables that at least satisfy what theory has to teach? And, since transmission line theory is universally applied, quite successfully, in the design of cables intended for TV, microwave, telephone, and other critical applications requiring peak performance, etc., why not use it in designing cables intended for critical audiophile applications? Hmmm! To say, as some do, that there are factors involved that competent engineers and scientists have yet to identify is utter nonsense and a cover-up for what should be called pure snake oil and buzzard salve - in short, pure fraud. If any cable manufacturer, writer, technician, etc. can identify such an audible design parameter that cannot be measured using available lab equipment or be described by known theory, I can guarantee a nomination for a Nobel Prize.

Anyway, I just had to share some of my favorite Hmmm's, regarding cable myths and seemingly fraudulent claims, with audiophiles on the net who may lack the technical expertise to separate fact from fiction with regard to cable performance. I also welcome comments from those who may have other opinions or who may know of something I might have missed or misunderstood regarding cable design, theory or secret criteria used by competitors to achieve performance that cannot be measured or identified by conventional means. Lets all try to get to the bottom of this mess by open, informed and objective inquiry.

I sincerely believe the time has come for concerned audiophiles, true engineers, competent physicists, academics, mag editors, etc. to take a firm stand regarding much of this disturbing new trend in the blatantly false claims frequently found in cable advertising. If we fail to do so, reputable designers, engineers, manufacturers, magazine editors and product reviewers may find their reputation tarnished beyond repair among those of the audiophile community we are supposed to serve.

Best regards,
John Dunlavy
 
Sep 13, 2011 at 3:06 AM Post #5 of 9
My old cables are crimped terminated and heat shrunk, and the cost of all the soldering stuff and the hassle I may as well get new cables, I was hoping to make a more informed choice this time but it seems impossible.


It's a cakewalk.

New spades or banana clips will be under $10.

$1 for some heatshrink.

25¢, at most, for solder.

$5 for a soldering iron if you don't have one.

Cut the cables with scissors and use a pocket knife or single-edged razor blade to strip the insulation. Slide the heatshrink over the cut cables. Solder the new terminals on, then slide the heatshrink back up over the joint. Use a lighter to shrink the heatshrink. Do that three more times and you're done. It's easy - I'm sure you can do it.

Though you don't really need to cut the cables at all if you don't want to. Just coil up the extra length and they'll work fine.
 
Sep 13, 2011 at 4:49 PM Post #6 of 9
you don't really need to solder the cables together really if you decide to use them again if you do cut them. you can just twist each end back together and use some electrical tape but if it was me i would just use the same cables and throw the rest of the expose behind the speaker or just coil it and use some zip ties or something else. the extra length has no sonic effects at all... if you insist. just go to local home dept or lowes and buy some 16 gauge lamp cord/speaker wire but i always go step heavier just for self-security and get 14 gauge instead. 16 gauge of copper is all you need. only way anything heavier then 16 gauge might make slightest difference is if your speaker nominal impedance is under 2ohms and the length used is more then 50ft.

 
Sep 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM Post #7 of 9
I'm not chopping my old cables up, il keep them I might need them again some point in the furture I currently have them coiled up but it's not an ideal solution it looks really untidy, I was goona go with silverplated cables for corrosion resistance but even that isn't simple as it may seem
 
'Red Plague'
When silver is plated over copper there can be an accelerated corrosion of the copper, through galvanic action, at pinholes or breaks in the silver plating. It is then susceptible to the formation of cuprous oxide when stored or used in a moist or high humidity environment. This corrosion is known as "red plague" and is identifiable by the presence of a brown-red powder deposit on the exposed copper. The environment for this wire must be controlled.
Red plague is created by normally occurring (without the presence of a bias voltage) galvanic corrosion between silver and copper. Red plague may develop when porous silver plating allows moisture and oxygen to invade the silver-copper interface. Project quality personnel must impose proper requirements on procurement of silver-plated wire. Please check the procurement specification to ensure that wire being procured is not silver-plated.
 
Sep 15, 2011 at 4:30 AM Post #8 of 9
I wouldn't worry too much about the "Red Plague."

I fiddle with old radios, too. My oldest is circa 1925, an old Atwater-Kent neutrodyne.

Despite being around 85 years old, corrosion isn't much of an issue. Haven't noticed it in my 1940s sets, either.

If you want new cables, why not build them? There are some popular designs that use rugged extension power cords. You can also try Cat5 computer cables.

Most cables are marked up several hundred percent. Why line someone's pockets when you can build your own?
 
Sep 16, 2011 at 4:42 PM Post #9 of 9
I've decided to go with 1 of the cheap zip cord cables, 14awg , 12awg or 10awg , it also appears skin effect is nothing to worry about it causes a 0.01db loss at 20khz and thats with a small gauge cable over a long run.
 

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