[peelax]

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I have not yet formed an opinion about cables (so I thought I would ask the people in the know) but could expensive wire be one of the biggest cons of the last 20 years?

I ask this because I was going to buy some Cardas headphone replacement cable until I read that (although I do think its very extreme and bias).

Further reading found at Dans Data:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...ec805bad392010

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...afa4ad089c1213

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...24e688ed53c07d

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...2a3a5dc9b22ef5

 

[AlanY]

There are so many threads on this already. Take a look at the recent RadioShack wires thread for an example, or do a search. People get tired of the debate.

 

[monkuboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY There are so many threads on this already. Take a look at the recent RadioShack wires thread for an example, or do a search. People get tired of the debate.

True, people get tired of it but I bet this thread will get a lot of responses! (LOL)

 

[fewtch]

Cardas cabling in general is very high quality and (to my ears) neutral sounding, so if it's not outside your budget you won't go wrong getting a Cardas headphone replacement cable... providing it's something you want. I've been fine with the stock cable myself, as I never disliked the sound of it.

I did get two Cardas mini-mini cables 6" and 12" ($14 and $17 respectively) for my portables... can't complain about the prices there, and they look and sound good.

 

[PhilS]

Do a search on this. Many threads . . . . and resulting nausea.

P.S. Welcome to the forum.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Do you want opinions?

Here's mine.

There is nothing present in an audio signal at audible frequencies that is not completely measurable well beyond the ear's ability to discern differences. This is not a new science, subject to errors and false-starts as new sciences are. This is old-school, this is the realm of the "we completely get this now." Some audiophiles will tell you that there are things the ear can discern that the instruments cannot, but that is pure magical thinking. If two cables measure precisely the same, they will sound precisely the same. This is backed up by many, many blind tests and double blind tests (you know, the only way to fully eliminate the placebo effect, and which this forum conveniently disallows).

There is positively a dread of science among some audiophiles, it appears, a fear of measurements and a sincere hatred for so-called "objectivists" (you know, people who want quantifiable improvements instead of vague adjectives when laying down hundreds or thousands of dollars), and it makes sense, because if the "objectivist" "measuremen hounds" are right there are a lot of people who are out a lot of money for nothing (except higher construction quality, which can be a valid reason to buy better cable). Make up your own mind, but be skeptical of extraordinary claims - it's electricity passing through a wire, and there is nothing magical present. Don't pay like it's magical.

Oh, and welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet!

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley Do you want opinions? Here's mine. There is nothing present in an audio signal at audible frequencies that is not completely measurable well beyond the ear's ability to discern differences. This is not a new science, subject to errors and false-starts as new sciences are. This is old-school, this is the realm of the "we completely get this now." Some audiophiles will tell you that there are things the ear can discern that the instruments cannot, but that is pure magical thinking. If two cables measure precisely the same, they will sound precisely the same. This is backed up by many, many blind tests and double blind tests (you know, the only way to fully eliminate the placebo effect, and which this forum conveniently disallows). There is positively a dread of science among some audiophiles, it appears, a fear of measurements and a sincere hatred for so-called "objectivists" (you know, people who want quantifiable improvements instead of vague adjectives when laying down hundreds or thousands of dollars), and it makes sense, because if the "objectivist" "measuremen hounds" are right there are a lot of people who are out a lot of money for nothing (except higher construction quality, which can be a valid reason to buy better cable). Make up your own mind, but be skeptical of extraordinary claims - it's electricity passing through a wire, and there is nothing magical present. Don't pay like it's magical. Oh, and welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet!

I'm reaching for my Tums.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I'm reaching for my Tums.

If you don't know me by now...

Don't take it to heart, just an opinion.

 

[Scrith]

I think part of the problem with audiophiles accepting double-blind tests is that the testing methodology is inherently flawed.

I can't tell you how many times I've A/B'd two items and did not hear a difference. So I leave them both hooked up for awhile and eventually, sometimes weeks later, I hear something that sounds different than I remembered it sounding. I then A/B again with that material, and I can hear the difference. The key is finding the right material to A/B test with, and most A/B tests are conducted in such a way that you are very likely to not find many differences between the items in question, even though there may well be differences.

 

[bigshot]

If I stare long enough at the clouds, I can see faces in them...

If it takes several weeks and a bunch of different recordings to discern a difference, we're talking about a microscopic difference. Hardly enough to justify spending 10x as much on a cable, and certainly within the range of simple human error.

See ya
Steve

 

[PhilS]

Opinions can be offered on both sides of virtually everything said in this thread so far. There is no firm proof that any particular point of view is correct in an absolute sense, or right for everybody. Everybody must make their own decision, based on what is important for them.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley Do you want opinions? Here's mine. There is nothing present in an audio signal at audible frequencies that is not completely measurable well beyond the ear's ability to discern differences. This is not a new science, subject to errors and false-starts as new sciences are. This is old-school, this is the realm of the "we completely get this now." Some audiophiles will tell you that there are things the ear can discern that the instruments cannot, but that is pure magical thinking. If two cables measure precisely the same, they will sound precisely the same. This is backed up by many, many blind tests and double blind tests (you know, the only way to fully eliminate the placebo effect, and which this forum conveniently disallows).

Ok then. Tell me, how would one measure soundstage size, depth, and height using instruments?

 

[AdamWill]

aerius: notjeff didn't say one could quantify all subjective _interpretations_ of sound with objective measurements. Soundstage is an interpretation of the signal made by your brain. You can't measure that. All he said was that two cables that measure the same will sound the same.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Ok then. Tell me, how would one measure soundstage size, depth, and height using instruments?

Compare a binaurally recorded waveform from playback.

The brain processes the soundstage and other things based on subtleties in phase variance and volume; that's like saying "okay, tell me how to measure green using instruments?" Yeah, it can tell you what wavelength of light is given off more precisely than your eyes can allow you to determine, but it doesn't see green. That doesn't change that it's accurate, and moreso than your eyes, and that two things measuring the same wavelength will both appear just as green to you.

 

[shplorgh]

GAH, if you want to know buy some cheap, good cables, there are a billion out there, and find out if it makes a difference to YOU.