[raekwonse]

So I read reviews of headphones on here that state that people can pinpoint the location of instruments coming from all directions.

I have the Beyerdynamic DT880s amped using a Little Dot MKIII with M8100s, and a Zero with an Earth HDAM as my DAC. While it does sound really good, I really don't notice the type of soundstaging that people talk about. Is it really that clear cut?

I wonder if it has to do with the type of music I listen to. I mostly listen to hip-hop or pop, which I guess is mostly produced digitally using drum machines and such and not recorded from a live band. Is that why I don't hear much soundstage? Thanks.

 

[tintin47]

With produced music, even just rock, many times it is recorded into separate microphones for each instrument, destroying any soundstage. In addition, the band/manager/producer can and does mess with the stereo balance of the recording. Listen to any beatles album and you'll realize this quickly. The effects are more minimal today but they're still there.

If you want to get a feel for soundstaging, get a piece of well-recorded classical music. or go to www.archive.org where they have thousands of live shows in FLAC that were usually recorded from one mic. Sometimes the person is in the audience and you can actually tell where they were standing in relation to the stage.

Also, it is difficult to explain, but sometimes when listening to a track, some pieces of if feel farther from your ears and some closer. That most certainly cannot be noticed with most hip hop.

 

[moonboy403]

Try listening to live songs. Maybe The Eagles' Hell Freezes Over?

 

[moogoob]

Pink Floyd's PULSE is great for soundstaging, in particular the audience's noise and applause.

 

[mape00]

It's funny, because you're only supposed to have a good soundstage with headphones if the recording is binaural, i.e. recorded with a dummy head, to get some kind of HRTF-approximation (account for the effect on our head and ears on the music, which in turn allows our brain to localize the sound). If not, the complete spatial information shouldn't really be there... Pinpointing sounds in all directions with such music shouldn't be possible.

Bu adjusting the equalization curves for headphones, one can obtain sound "farther away" which can be interpreted by some as "better soundstage" (I think slightly flatter than DF equalization gives "good soundstage" as in sounding more remote).

Try listening to some of the music mentioned on the wikipedia page. You'll be amazed.

 

[MatsudaMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mape00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's funny, because you're only supposed to have a good soundstage with headphones if the recording is binaural, i.e. recorded with a dummy head, to get some kind of HRTF-approximation (account for the effect on our head and ears on the music, which in turn allows our brain to localize the sound). If not, the complete spatial information shouldn't really be there... Pinpointing sounds in all directions with such music shouldn't be possible. Bu adjusting the equalization curves for headphones, one can obtain sound "farther away" which can be interpreted by some as "better soundstage" (I think slightly flatter than DF equalization gives "good soundstage" as in sounding more remote). Try listening to some of the music mentioned on the wikipedia page. You'll be amazed.

I totally agree. The only time I've experienced anything coming close to soundstage on a headphone was from a binaural recording. There's a guy in the Milwaukee Symphony who specializes and is a huge advocate for this interesting recording technique. I was amazed at how close it was to the experience of being in a real concert hall, sitting in the audience.

Most new recordings use so many mics for each instrument that it obscures any sense of soundstage.

I also have to say that most people that say that their headphones have awesome soundstage or "headstage" as they say, are confused with terminology. Some headphones give listeners varying levels of decay or attack or speed and timing, which give varying senses of space or immediacy, but not soundstage.

There is absolutely no way for a headphone, within it's current technological parameters, to convey to the listener a sense of music coming from in front of them and side to side with a sense of depth, since the drivers pumping music directly into there eardrums. Moreover, the music was produced with conventional speakers in mind.

 

[nnotis]

I reject the idea that a soundstage can only exist with live recordings. Many producers of every genre go through a lot of trouble to construct virtual space in their mixes. I certainly do. I’ve heard many a studio rock album with a successfully sculpted soundstage. Mape00 has highlighted one of many ways in which a producer achieves this illusion. Reverberation, both acoustic and synthetic, is another means.

Further more, do you people really think that live recordings are made with nothing more than a stereo pair of the best mics? I’m pretty sure even most symphonic recordings being done in concert halls with favorable acoustics employ the use of close mics.

 

[Shoreman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif With produced music, even just rock, many times it is recorded into separate microphones for each instrument, destroying any soundstage. In addition, the band/manager/producer can and does mess with the stereo balance of the recording. Listen to any beatles album and you'll realize this quickly. The effects are more minimal today but they're still there. If you want to get a feel for soundstaging, get a piece of well-recorded classical music. or go to www.archive.org where they have thousands of live shows in FLAC that were usually recorded from one mic. Sometimes the person is in the audience and you can actually tell where they were standing in relation to the stage. Also, it is difficult to explain, but sometimes when listening to a track, some pieces of if feel farther from your ears and some closer. That most certainly cannot be noticed with most hip hop.

Excellent, informative post...and, from my experience as well, absolutely right on. Also wanted to thank you for the heads-up on www.archive.org.

 

[raekwonse]

Wow, thanks guys. I didn't think I'd get this many responses. This was very informative. I was looking around and I also found this recent post which has some good suggestions for recordings with good soundstage:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f9/sug...dstage-381141/

If you have any other suggestions, let's hear them!

 

[Uncle Erik]

Go pick up one of the Zenph reperformances - they've done Glenn Gould and Art Tatum. Each disc has stereo and binaural tracks. They're also hybrid SACD, so they're really a treat if you have a player. Those will let you hear soundstage as it was meant to be heard. Stunning and rewards a good rig. Another good binaural SACD is Can's "Flow Motion."

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another good binaural SACD is Can's "Flow Motion."

"Flow Motion" is great as are Psychic TV "Dreams Less Sweet" and Roger Waters "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking". Actually all albums recorded using Holophonic sound technique have great soundstage and sound very realistic to me.

OP if you want a Hip-Hop album with good soundstage try Deltron 3030

 

[dclancy]

The album I always got to, to dissect the soundstage on new equipment, is Of Montreal's- Gay Parade, or Coqueliquet Asleep in the Poppies.