[Sweet Spot]

This dates back to about two weeks ago, while I was heading into the vinyl section at Virgin Record store at Union Square (NYC). There's a kiosk set up right outside of the vinyl/video game section there, where people have been getting custom made silicone (think it's a mix though, but not sure) ear tips for a brand of canal phones, aptly named "Soundcage".

The ear molds are done in about 15 minutes, on the fly and are done with the person sitting in an upright (normal) position. Anyway, at that time, I got to meet the founder of the company, who's name is Nick, after he was interviewed by some guy from "thestreet.com". The camera man for "TS.com" was being fit for some canal phones at the time, saying that the interviewer already had a pair, so I spoke with him about them a bit.

But down business... To be honest, I don't trust the "ts.com" guy all that much, simply because of two reasons: For one, he got a pair con gratis, and secondly, he's um, shall we say... "older". Not that the guy is deaf or anything, but we all know how age and frequency range go together yada yada...

Nick, the founder of said company, was kind enough (after talking with him a bit) to give me a VIP card for a free fitting, and I guess I'd be able to keep them after deciding which model (if either) of their canal phones I liked.

The main company is sonomax and they are in the "hearing protection" business, much like Scientific Plastics. And the subsidiary company I guess is Soundcage

I'm troubled over the fact that the sales rep at the Virgin Kiosk wasn't able to supply me with any technical specs or references of either model, and was told that the information was on the website. Not only that, but I really wasn't all too impressed with either her or the other sales reps descriptions (from two weeks ago) of the products and the supposed characteristics. Their mantra seems to be based on how loud everyone listens to their headphones, and is damaging their ears. And also how just because the Soundcage canal phones give you a great seal, that they really sound great.

Then on the website, they've got this really stupid opinion (well, I think it's stupid as hell) which states : Quote:

It's important to understand the benefit of having an acoustic seal with your earphone. If it doesn't have an acoustic seal, it isn't going to deliver a high quality listening experience. If any sound escapes, or if any ambient sound intrudes, your experience of the music is going to be fundamentally compromised.

Ok, I can understand saying that loud outside noise can take one away from the music they're trying to listen to, and that's not the best scenario with which to listen to music.. Fine. I can also understand them saying that if music escapes, it will fundamentally change the acoustics, but what they said ? Totally bunk if you asked me.

I guess the bottom line here, is has anybody tried these ? There are two models, but I'll not get into the details because I've already provided links which go to them both. They are the "Raw" and the "Crystal". The specs can be found at the user guide section of the site, found on the top right.

Price for the single driver Raw, is $150 and Crystal which is a dual driver design is $200.

I'm a bit (a lot) tired, so I probably haven't said all I wanted to, but it can wait for the morning. I'll probably at least go over to Virgin Tomorrow and get the fitting done. At the very least, the custom ear molds can fit a different pair of canal phones, if I don't like what theirs sound like.

Thoughts and opinions certainly wanted.

Doug

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Spot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Price for the single driver Raw, is $150 and Crystal which is a dual driver design is $200.

I was wondering why these custom costs so little... here are the reason:
RAW:
Freq. Res. 100Hz - 5.7kHz + 4dB

Crystal:
Freq. Res. 16Hz - 6.8kHz + 4dB

With frequency response only extends to what considered to be the lower end of lower high range in human hearing range*, you will be missing a lot of treble/detail w/ these. Y'll be better off save for the FreQ or LiveWires.


*Full human hearing range = 20Hz - 20kHz, but most people after twenty or so can only hear only up to 16kHz. Lower high range is roughly 5kHz ~ 10kHz)

 

[tnmike1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Spot /img/forum/go_quote.gif This dates back to about two weeks ago, while I was heading into the vinyl section at Virgin Record store at Union Square (NYC). There's a kiosk set up right outside of the vinyl/video game section there, where people have been getting custom made silicone (think it's a mix though, but not sure) ear tips for a brand of canal phones, aptly named "Soundcage". The ear molds are done in about 15 minutes, on the fly and are done with the person sitting in an upright (normal) position. Anyway, at that time, I got to meet the founder of the company, who's name is Nick, after he was interviewed by some guy from "thestreet.com". The camera man for "TS.com" was being fit for some canal phones at the time, saying that the interviewer already had a pair, so I spoke with him about them a bit. But down business... To be honest, I don't trust the "ts.com" guy all that much, simply because of two reasons: For one, he got a pair con gratis, and secondly, he's um, shall we say... "older". Not that the guy is deaf or anything, but we all know how age and frequency range go together yada yada... Nick, the founder of said company, was kind enough (after talking with him a bit) to give me a VIP card for a free fitting, and I guess I'd be able to keep them after deciding which model (if either) of their canal phones I liked. The main company is sonomax and they are in the "hearing protection" business, much like Scientific Plastics. And the subsidiary company I guess is Soundcage I'm troubled over the fact that the sales rep at the Virgin Kiosk wasn't able to supply me with any technical specs or references of either model, and was told that the information was on the website. Not only that, but I really wasn't all too impressed with either her or the other sales reps descriptions (from two weeks ago) of the products and the supposed characteristics. Their mantra seems to be based on how loud everyone listens to their headphones, and is damaging their ears. And also how just because the Soundcage canal phones give you a great seal, that they really sound great. Then on the website, they've got this really stupid opinion (well, I think it's stupid as hell) which states : Ok, I can understand saying that loud outside noise can take one away from the music they're trying to listen to, and that's not the best scenario with which to listen to music.. Fine. I can also understand them saying that if music escapes, it will fundamentally change the acoustics, but what they said ? Totally bunk if you asked me. I guess the bottom line here, is has anybody tried these ? There are two models, but I'll not get into the details because I've already provided links which go to them both. They are the "Raw" and the "Crystal". The specs can be found at the user guide section of the site, found on the top right. Price for the single driver Raw, is $150 and Crystal which is a dual driver design is $200. I'm a bit (a lot) tired, so I probably haven't said all I wanted to, but it can wait for the morning. I'll probably at least go over to Virgin Tomorrow and get the fitting done. At the very least, the custom ear molds can fit a different pair of canal phones, if I don't like what theirs sound like. Thoughts and opinions certainly wanted. Doug

Don't trust them??? Have a queasy feeling about quality??? Uneasy about their responses??? Then don't buy them. You've sent up enough red flags in your own post to argue against buying from them. Check out the Livewires which I understand are also great IEMs with custom fits.

Buyijng from a kiosk??? NO thanks.

 

[Sweet Spot]

Yeah, my first reaction to the frequency response charts was also kind of

but I always feel better asking if anyone has had direct experience rather than just judge based upon a spec sheet, which I hope you guys can (I'm sure you can) appreciate.

I wasn't really looking for another pair of canal phones just now, but got roped into the whole theatrical event at the kiosk during the fittings, thinking it was a very cool concept, which it is really. I'm going to go there anyway, and get the fittings done, as well as give them a listen. If I think they sound anything like what the spec sheet describes, I'll just say they're not for me.

Besides, I am much more interested in purchasing :

KAB EV-1 record cleaning machine
Antistatic Gun
Another iRiver H120 which has resurfaced on eBay from a power seller, and Jeff From Misticriver is getting a few which I'm sure he'll be selling.

Money better spent on those things I'm sure. Oh, and of course there's a ton of new Blue Note re-issues courtesy of Steve Hoffman and co. to get...

Doug

 

[ClieOS]

Do remember to give us an impression if you get a chance to audition them

 

[Saya]

I am going to get Sonomax Soundcage PCS500 next week. I am hearing this is better than E500. I am using E500 that is why I have decided to buy. I will post when I am ready. btw, PCS500 is going to be my first molded canal phone so can not compare it to other molded ones. Cheers

 

[ClieOS]

If they are performing as the Freq. Res. they listed on their website, I doubt that they will out perform even the E2.

 

[Saya]

I got PCS500 yesterday. This is my first impression. I am using Kenwood HD30GB9--> Graham Slee Voyager --> PCS500
I have been using E500 about 12 months.

My first impression is PCS is far more accurate and crystal clearer. This put me a big smile. Impressive. Although I have been very happy about overall SQ of E500, I now know this was something missing in E500.
I do not know about the spec etc at all but that is the best I can describe at the moment. At the same time, the volume in low is less and treble is more so this is difference in balance perhaps.

I switched back and forth between them but I can not go back to E500. Every thing is very clear and accurate which I like and have been looking for.

To me, this level of accuracy and high resolution sound is closer to the real live sound.

Built quality is not like E500 all and touch noise on cables is more than E500 but should not be the issue too much.
For the price of JPY42000 US$400, this is just an excellent headphone.

 

[ClieOS]

Interesting to know.

Based on what you described, perhaps the spec in their site are wrong? Certainly hope that is the case. Anyway, does the IEM inserted very deep as showed on their site?

btw, I notice the price difference b/w JP and US's price is double.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

It's important to understand the benefit of having an acoustic seal with your earphone. If it doesn't have an acoustic seal, it isn't going to deliver a high quality listening experience. If any sound escapes, or if any ambient sound intrudes, your experience of the music is going to be fundamentally compromised.

I don't see anything wrong with what this says. Getting a good seal is of fundamental importance with IEM's otherwise you'll you'll be compromising the sound most noticeably the bass. I also have to agree on the ambient sound intruding statement, it's why I tend to prefer closed or IEM's over open headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was wondering why these custom costs so little... here are the reason: RAW: Freq. Res. 100Hz - 5.7kHz + 4dB Crystal: Freq. Res. 16Hz - 6.8kHz + 4dB With frequency response only extends to what considered to be the lower end of lower high range in human hearing range*, you will be missing a lot of treble/detail w/ these. Y'll be better off save for the FreQ or LiveWires. *Full human hearing range = 20Hz - 20kHz, but most people after twenty or so can only hear only up to 16kHz. Lower high range is roughly 5kHz ~ 10kHz)

It should be noted that this stated frequency response does not necessarily mean they cut off at 5.7kHz and 6.8kHz respectively, they're stating the frequency range of most linearity within +4 or -4db, they could actually rise beyond those stated frequencies for all we know.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero /img/forum/go_quote.gif It should be noted that this stated frequency response does not necessarily mean they cut off at 5.7kHz and 6.8kHz respectively, they're stating the frequency range of most linearity within +4 or -4db, they could actually rise beyond those stated frequencies for all we know.

Yeah, maybe it is like that, but won't it be silly for them not to include the full range, right? Listing those spec without any further explanation is kind of a handicap when people are comparing the company's products with other and saw the big gap that are missing....Just my thought.

 

[elnero]

It's fairly commonplace to state the range with the best linearity as your frequency response but as an example typically that would read something like 60hz to 16khz +/- 3db and might even add in a caveat like, - 6db at 40hz or something along those lines. In the case I just used as an example it looks more like a speaker from which I could discern that it's fairly linear across the board but starts to roll off around 60 hz but the roll off isn't too dramatic because it's down only 6 db at 40hz.

It should be noted that without stating a +/- though any stated freq. measurement is pretty much useless so in that Soundcage did a good thing. You're right though, the troubling aspect of their measurements is the stated frequency range is rather narrow and no where near full range for an IEM with nothing to tell us what's going on beyond whats stated so yes they've handicapped themselves with it but in reality I don't think any more so than a company that doesn't show a +/- for a full range measurement. Of course I don't think the average consumer knows or thinks too much about the +/- factor.

 

[Saya]

well, I thought I did inserted properly but I tried again based on instruction. I think bass was improved. This is just amazaing. Thanks vm ClieOS.
I heard PCS700 is on its way hopefully by the year end but the sales person commented they are under pressure to develop PCS700 because PCS500 is just a fantastic IEM already. PCS700 is for studio monitor use...he said. No price was mentioned.
I saw few people using E500 there and all said this is far better than E500. I am glad I believed them.

 

[grownmansport]

I got a pair of these last weekend at the Union Square Virgin Megastore in NYC so thought I'd post my impressions since there seems to be very little information out there on these. The pair I got were actually neither the "Raw" or "Crystal" models that are advertised but a third model which was shown to me only after I complained about the lack of bass in the Crystals. I was told that they're Crystals with extended bass. They're white in color instead of black and the sales guy said that they don't carry many of them. It's strange that they're not listed in any of their ads. They were pulled out from a little side drawer and came in a clear plastic bag instead of the others that were in boxes. I suspect they could be prototypes that he wasn't even supposed to sell...? Very curious as to what the deal is. I paid $199 which is what they were charging for the regular Crystals.

As for the sound, I would say that they're fantastic. I own a few cheaper IEMs (ety 6i, shure e2c, v-moda vibe) and these blow all of them out of the water. Very transparent/detailed and a pleasure to listen to as much as some of the full sized phones I own. My only gripe is that the sound starts to crack with my iPod volume on max depending on the source file, but that's only a minor issue.

By the way the regular Crystals sounded equally clear and impressive but I thought they were thin on the bass and overall output which I suppose would be just fine depending on the type of music.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grownmansport /img/forum/go_quote.gif I got a pair of these last weekend at the Union Square Virgin Megastore in NYC so thought I'd post my impressions since there seems to be very little information out there on these. The pair I got were actually neither the "Raw" or "Crystal" models that are advertised but a third model which was shown to me only after I complained about the lack of bass in the Crystals. I was told that they're Crystals with extended bass. They're white in color instead of black and the sales guy said that they don't carry many of them. It's strange that they're not listed in any of their ads. They were pulled out from a little side drawer and came in a clear plastic bag instead of the others that were in boxes. I suspect they could be prototypes that he wasn't even supposed to sell...? Very curious as to what the deal is. I paid $199 which is what they were charging for the regular Crystals. As for the sound, I would say that they're fantastic. I own a few cheaper IEMs (ety 6i, shure e2c, v-moda vibe) and these blow all of them out of the water. Very transparent/detailed and a pleasure to listen to as much as some of the full sized phones I own. My only gripe is that the sound starts to crack with my iPod volume on max depending on the source file, but that's only a minor issue. By the way the regular Crystals sounded equally clear and impressive but I thought they were thin on the bass and overall output which I suppose would be just fine depending on the type of music.

Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet...