[ClieOS]

  Sony has in fact made it very clear what their little "hi-res" decal entails: (source)
 
 
1. Frequency response goes above 40kHz (which is what I mean by "compliant" headphones, e.g. the MDR-1)
2. must pass an internal SQ evaluation (i.e. should audibly bear out the benefit of a source that's not just CD-quality)
 
Sony has always made it very clear that their hi-res == anything above CD-spec, they never promised more.
 
Since you doubted that Sony might have downsampled the output, I'm really just trying to point out that
A. according to Sony's internal standards they would not sell a product with downsampled playback as hi-res,
and that B, there's an interview online that says the headphone jack is putting out more than 20kHz.
 
You can argue all day about whether Sony really managed to pull it off, but I don't see anything outlandish with these claims at all. If you think it's a marketing ploy then I think you should ask yourself whether you should believe in the benefits of ANY hi-def audio spec.
 
But listen, you think what you wanna think, it's not like my pride is invested in hi-res audio one way or another. Even if you think it's all a marketing game, it's you who's the williing participant.

 
... and again, HIGHLY laughable when comparing to how other in the same industry are defining HD these days. Do you actually know what you are talking about with those Sony definitions? Headphone that produce 40kHz serve no purpose on human hearing, which stop around 20kHz or so. I am not even taking about headphone, but the sampling rate of the DAC - even the most mediocre audio DAC these days can sample 44.1kHz and pump out 22kHz without any problem, and how is that make them high-res in anyway? If they were all going by that logic of 'minding their own definition and ignoring the rest of the world', no wonder their smartphone business are being widely criticized for playing catching up and showing weak hand in front of their competition. 
 
Do you know what LG claims for hi-res in their G2? a full spec 24/192. That's the same for Samsung for their Galaxy S3 and HTC for One - and those are not even the latest generation of product like Z3. Do you also know that all three of them essentially have the same DAC inside that actually support 24/192? In fact, Sony actually has a 24/192 capable DAC since the days of Xperia Z (the same DAC is also in Z2 and Z3). They just too lazy to implement the full 24/192 that already built into the hardware since 2 years ago.
 
..and it is not about marketing or not, it is about being honest on the products you sold. If Sony want to define 40kHz as hi-res, then let them post it on every page on every product they claims to be hi-res, so people can be informed on how their version of high-res compared to others - not just in Japanese which most people can't read. I don't care about hi-res myself, as I don't even listen to music on smartphone by much - But paying with words doesn't make for a good company practice in the long run, especially since it is unfair to the less informed customer.

 

[Q Mass]

I'd like to read the spec's for the DAC and amp in the Z3-c.
Does anyone know of an English source for these?

I'm not really concerned whether Sony is achieving true Hi-Rez as others define it.
What I'm hoping for is a cell-phone which performs well with Spotify and other non Hi-rez sources, and if it does reasonably well with Hi-rez (even if it's down-sampled or whatever) that'll be enough for me.
Proper 24/192 would be a bonus, but it's absence wouldn't put me off completely.
Do we know for sure that the Z3-compact doesn't provide 24/192?.
The performance of the amp/general implementation matters too.

 

[ClieOS]

The DAC is Qualcomm WCD9320. It has been the default DAC to use since SnapDragon 800 (including 801) and Qualcomm has yet to update it. As far as I know, there is no independent amp section for any of the Xperia smartphone, same for Galaxy S series and most smartphone in the market (as no one has ever find a headphone amp section in any tear down guide. The only exception is Vivo Xplay series). My guess is that, they either use the build-in driver inside the DAC or adds a simple current output stage to boost current output. Nothing similar to what we will refer as amp section in HF.

 

[Q Mass]

Thanks for responding ClieOS
Where do you find this info?
 
I ask as I'm thinking of upgrading my cell-phone (from current Moto Razr-i) but only want to do so if there's a decent chance the Z1-c or Z3-c will offer noticeably better sound quality (Razr is tolerable, but not inspiring).
 
 
I'm finding it hard to find out if there's likely to be any improvement in SQ from Moto to Sony, and whether I'm better to either:
 
Stick with the Razr
 
Upgrade to Sony but save some cash by getting a used Z1-c @ 180-200GBP
 
or splash out on the Z3-c @ 350GBP as it may (or may not) sound better than the Z1-c
 
So I'd like to compare any audio performance numbers available for the above phones.
Even if the claimed performance doesn't tell the whole story it would make my decision a bit less of a 'stab in the dark'.
 
I know there's other phones which might sound better, but the size and rugged/waterproofing is important to me.

 

[ClieOS]

  Thanks for responding ClieOS
Where do you find this info?
 

 
Hardware info can be found on various teardown guide over the web, it just requires some googling around. But they don't have measurement. I'll suggest you wait for gsmarena.com to post the measurement data to give you some idea.

 

[Q Mass]

OK, thanks ClieOS

 

[waynes world]

I have a samsung galaxy s2. For various reasons I don't use it for listening to music, but my contract is up and I can get another phone, and I wouldn't be upset if it produced great SQ. This question may be off topic, but is there a reliable place (ie website or thread) that can tell me which phones have the best SQ?

 

[VortexGenie2]

I'm debating between the z1 compact and z3 compact to use with my Fiio e18.  Am I correct to assume that with a portable DAC, Sony's high res audio in the new z3 is moot?  I've also read elsewhere that z2/z3 phones have superior -overUSB capabilities.  Would somebody be kind enough to clarify this for me?  

 

[Q Mass]

I'm debating between the z1 compact and z3 compact to use with my Fiio e18.  Am I correct to assume that with a portable DAC, Sony's high res audio in the new z3 is moot?  I've also read elsewhere that z2/z3 phones have superior -overUSB capabilities.  Would somebody be kind enough to clarify this for me?  

I too would like to know what solutions are available to provide 'native' USB audio from the Z1 compact for the likes of Spotify, Qobuz etc (especially Spotify).

I just bought a used Z1 compact (4.4.4)in the hope of using it with a DAC/amp as I thought I'd read that this was possible.

Now when I search for successful examples of this I can't find them anymore!
So I'm becoming co cerned that it may have been wishful thinking on my part

Has anyone here used a Z1 compact/Kitkat with a dac/amp + Spotify successfully?

 

[Tr1ppy]

I too would like to know what solutions are available to provide 'native' USB audio from the Z1 compact for the likes of Spotify, Qobuz etc (especially Spotify).

I just bought a used Z1 compact (4.4.4)in the hope of using it with a DAC/amp as I thought I'd read that this was possible.

Now when I search for successful examples of this I can't find them anymore!
So I'm becoming co cerned that it may have been wishful thinking on my part

Has anyone here used a Z1 compact/Kitkat with a dac/amp + Spotify successfully?

Hi,
I have the z1 compact and use it with the Fiio E18. It works fine with any app I throw at it; youtube, poweramp, soundcloud etc work great with the E18. I dont have spotify so i cant report on that app im afraid, but I guess it may work.

The E18 was designed for Android but if I remember correctly, it doesnt work with all Android phones. My friends Nexus 5 doesnt work unfortunately.

 

[obsidyen]

I still have the Z1 Compact and think it has good audio quality. However, it's rumored that Z4 will have Sony's in-house S-master chip found in high-end Sony daps. Now that would be amazing. 

 

[Q Mass]

Hi,
I have the z1 compact and use it with the Fiio E18. It works fine with any app I throw at it; youtube, poweramp, soundcloud etc work great with the E18. I dont have spotify so i cant report on that app im afraid, but I guess it may work.

The E18 was designed for Android but if I remember correctly, it doesnt work with all Android phones. My friends Nexus 5 doesnt work unfortunately.

That's good news, thanks Tr1ppy.

Has anyone else tried Spotify?
I'm guessing that it 'follows the same path' through android as the other native audio that you mention, but since I'm pretty clueless regarding this subject I'd like to be sure before dropping my cash.

Two other questions if I may (to anyone else who might know too)
1:
Does adding the E18 to the Z1 compact offer an appreciable difference in SQ? (I'm using 32 Ohm CIEM's ).


2:
What other hardware dac/amp combo's are there which people can confirm work with Z1 compact/ KitKat-4.4.4?

 

[Tr1ppy]

That's good news, thanks Tr1ppy.

Has anyone else tried Spotify?
I'm guessing that it 'follows the same path' through android as the other native audio that you mention, but since I'm pretty clueless regarding this subject I'd like to be sure before dropping my cash.

Two other questions if I may (to anyone else who might know too)
1:
Does adding the E18 to the Z1 compact offer an appreciable difference in SQ? (I'm using 32 Ohm CIEM's ).


2:
What other hardware dac/amp combo's are there which people can confirm work with Z1 compact/ KitKat-4.4.4?

No problem mate.

Yes there is a definite and noticeable improvement in the sq. Im no expert, or audiophile but i do love my edm and indie rock.
I was kinda dissapointed with Z1c as I was upgrading from an iphone 4. The Z1c just felt muddy, congested and lacked power throughout the freq spectrum, compared to the iphone4.

The E18 definitely improved the clarity and soundstage. Oh and it easily pushes the single BA driver of my Klipsch X10s to distortion. A little eq to attenuate the bass a little rectifies this to an extent so its a great little combo.

The X10s have 50ohm impedance and 110db sensitivity and the E18 can push them to ear bleeding levels easily, even on low gain.

 

[Tr1ppy]

I still have the Z1 Compact and think it has good audio quality. However, it's rumored that Z4 will have Sony's in-house S-master chip found in high-end Sony daps. Now that would be amazing. 

Thats great news obsidyen!!

I really hope they stop using software decoding and start using a dedicated dac for audio output. This is sonething that the iphone/ipod have done for many years. I mean this is Sony for crying out loud, they pretty much invented the walkman as far as I know lol!

 

[obsidyen]

No problem mate.

Yes there is a definite and noticeable improvement in the sq. Im no expert, or audiophile but i do love my edm and indie rock.
I was kinda dissapointed with Z1c as I was upgrading from an iphone 4. The Z1c just felt muddy, congested and lacked power throughout the freq spectrum, compared to the iphone4.

The E18 definitely improved the clarity and soundstage. Oh and it easily pushes the single BA driver of my Klipsch X10s to distortion. A little eq to attenuate the bass a little rectifies this to an extent so its a great little combo.

The X10s have 50ohm impedance and 110db sensitivity and the E18 can push them to ear bleeding levels easily, even on low gain.

Have you tried Poweramp? In my opinion, it offers better than sound than the Walkman app. The sound is louder and more dynamic.
 

Thats great news obsidyen!!

I really hope they stop using software decoding and start using a dedicated dac for audio output. This is sonething that the iphone/ipod have done for many years. I mean this is Sony for crying out loud, they pretty much invented the walkman as far as I know lol!

 
Indeed, my Sony Ericsson W810i (a true Walkman phone) had amazing sound, much better than modern smartphones. That's because it had Sony's own chip, not an onboard Qualcomm solution. I hope rumors will turn out to be true and we can enjoy much better sound with Z4. Qualcomm's onboard audio is ok but not as good as discrete chips.