[MudEnjoyer]

No. I don't want Google deciding what's best for my Walkman. They tend to remove more features than they add. Many LG owners feel the same way.

For some weird reason my DAP has now to be linked to a Google account with access to email, calendar, contacts, photos, browser… call me weird but I want up to date software for anything with an internet connection.

 

[Not so fat head]

Per the volume cap.... Get ready for massive law suits against manufactures when tens of millions of young folks age with hearing loss, due to headphone use... I guarantee it... Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.. Sony is just protecting their interest..

An amazing business plan.. Sell kids IEM's, let the blow their hearing, then sell them hearing aids later in life...
Beautiful

 

[andrewski]

For some weird reason my DAP has now to be linked to a Google account with access to email, calendar, contacts, photos, browser… call me weird but I want up to date software for anything with an internet connection.

Fair enough. I disable most of that. And if I finally start streaming I might feel the same way. But I don't. I'll be good on Airplane mode for hopefully 10 years or so

 

[revenge]

Per the volume cap.... Get ready for massive law suits against manufactures when tens of millions of young folks age with hearing loss, due to headphone use... I guarantee it... Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.. Sony is just protecting their interest.

Has anybody put a cap of how many units of alcohol you can drink daily? Or how many cigarettes you can smoke? We educate people to use them in moderation but we don’t cap / ban habits that lead to cancer, cirrhosis etc. We don’t curb pollution. We continue to sell junk in supermarkets and there is absolutely no limit in how much poison you can ingest as long as there is a little disclaimer on the package: dude, you could get cancer. However we are very concerned about hearing so yeah, you might get cancer but at least you will be able to hear yourself screaming in agony. Thank God EU has thought of this!

Fair enough. I disable most of that. And if I finally start streaming I might feel the same way. But I don't. I'll be good on Airplane mode for hopefully 10 years or so

Matter of fact I like Android because I can install Qobuz, download as many albums as I like for offline use and THEN put it in airplane mode. My DAP only connects to WiFi when I download new offline content. The rest of the time it is indeed in airplane mode. I have also disabled most of the default apps - Gmail, Maps, Drive, I have disabled location services etc. So although presumably Google can still collect some information it will be mainly about my musical tastes. Or lack of.

An amazing business plan.. Sell kids IEM's, let the blow their hearing, then sell them hearing aids later in life...
Beautiful

There is someone here who is trying to convince me to play music at high volume because otherwise I will not fully appreciate the sound of the amazing 707. Maybe you want to have a word with him!

I'm still a deer in headlights. Still forming an opinion. I knew it was better in every way in under 30 seconds. It shouldn't sound this different. Seems impossible. More bass, more oomph, seems louder. Only gone back to the AM2 while charging the ZM2. AM2 seems so much thinner at first, less volume? Takes half an hour to completely fall in love with it again, good layering and transparency. So yeah, so far I recommend the ZM2 (or AM2) to anyone psychotic enough to buy one.

And ZX707 Rocks!

Thanks for that. I was half expecting it, hearing the difference between 707 and AM2.

And cooper makes sense. Some of you might for instance be aware of special edition KI Marantz amplifiers. KI stood for Ken Ishiwata and the man loved copper plating or a solid copper base for his amplifiers. An example of KI tuning described below.

Another example that comes to mind is Naim’s top dog streamer (ND555) which had the main board bolted to massive brass plates suspended on springs. And so on. Copper seems to provide certain sonic advantages over aluminium or steel.

 

[Iron-Buddha]

There is someone here who is trying to convince me to play music at high volume because otherwise I will not fully appreciate the sound of the amazing 707. Maybe you want to have a word with him!

Yeah, not sure what IEM or headphone he is using, but those volume levels were very very high. Please don't damage your hearing and sue Sony.....the next gen DAPs will have even less power.

As for the Canadian volume cap, they have the other high-end players for sale on the same shelf uncapped. So this is not an issue of over-regulation. Sony did this to themselves. This isn't surprising as they shoot themselves in the foot all the time. Amazing products hampered by proprietary memory cards, cables, software, etc.

When I put on my tinfoil hat, I start thinking they knew this would sell in higher volumes due to the price-point and directed retail sales to their Japanese network. Just saying........Chupacabra leather also makes the best DAP cases.....

 

[Click]

Yeah, not sure what IEM or headphone he is using, but those volume levels were very very high. Please don't damage your hearing and sue Sony.....the next gen DAPs will have even less power.

As for the Canadian volume cap, they have the other high-end players for sale on the same shelf uncapped. So this is not an issue of over-regulation. Sony did this to themselves. This isn't surprising as they shoot themselves in the foot all the time. Amazing products hampered by proprietary memory cards, cables, software, etc.

When I put on my tinfoil hat, I start thinking they knew this would sell in higher volumes due to the price-point and directed retail sales to their Japanese network. Just saying........Chupacabra leather also makes the best DAP cases.....

I've been listening to and playing music for decades. I think I know what's safe and what's not safe for my hearing.

I'm primarily using Audeze Euclid on the 707, which uses a 18mm planar driver. It needs power to sound good, and the uncapped 707 provides good power for it, as well as good synergy with it too.

I'm usually at 80-85 on high gain with the Euclid for most tracks for local files and USB Audio Player Pro to get bit perfect Tidal streaming.

Sennheiser HD 700 needs a bit higher volume than the Euclid. HIFIMAN HE400i even higher, since it's a planar headphone.

Some tracks like orchestral tracks or older tracks needs more volume.

Why would I sue Sony if I hurt my own ears? So silly...

 

[sunnygsm]

I like it so far

 

[revenge]

Well, I don't want to completely derail the conversation but my understanding is that EU laws now prohibit the sale of non-capped players and I think the limit is 100dB. So said Chinese players should not be marketed in EU / UK in the first place. Arguably if you purchase such a device from, say eBay, you are breaking the law and you are on your own.

What we could discuss is how did Sony / other manufacturers translate this law into practice. In theory any DAP / phone has the potential to reach and exceed the 100dB with the right combination of headphones / earphones / dongles etc and I think that even at 1.1mW you will find some earplugs that are going to exceed this limit.

However people buy such DAPs for good quality headphones / earphones and 1.1mW is hardly going to drive anything reasonably. My 32ohm K872 had me push the volume on the capped AM2 to 100-105 out of 120 and I normally listen at about 65dB (with peaks of 70-75dB on loud passages). That's where I am comfortable. I don't think I could drive the K872 over 80dB even at max volume. Keep in mind, a relatively efficient 32 ohm headphone. I would argue that is excessive and I think that it goes further than any other manufacturer. As the blokes in that much hated review have noticed, you can push an iPhone louder with the lightning dongle. Are Apple breaking the law?

On a different note, and I don't want to hurt sensitivities, after a few hours of use I still very much dislike the sound signature of my 707 and nothing has changed fundamentally. The low end is lacking, the overall sound is lean and it has this digital hard edge I can't come to terms with. None of the refinement / musicality of the bigger brothers is found here. Flat, one note, uningaging. I am not sure if one can find better alternatives on the market for the money but I am quite happy to pay the difference to the next level. Mine is going on eBay today. Sorry if I have caused upset, it is not what I came here for. I guess we all have different tastes and, as I have accepted from the beginning, I am in a minority here. Enjoy the music!

 

[andrewski]

Just speculating.

Lack of leadership. Government mandates aren't very popular right now. Public anger is.

Government cash grabs from corporations are on the rise. (they should have known)

Sony's trust in fair trade has diminished in three new regions.

 

[Not so fat head]

IDK, every earphone/ headphone I use on DAP's, are highly efficient and require little power. Many of those are Sony, my favorite for just sitting in my car are the MDR-Z7's or MDR-1A mark2's... I haven't upgraded my z7's yet...
707's probably good enough for me, but I get some want to drive lower efficiency phones. You'll just have to go elsewhere

I also Have the MDR-1Adac. These are unbelievable and any Sony DAP can drive them with Hires digital, by passing analog. Sony was way ahead of the competition 10 years back.. they cost me $450 back in 2015, so not cheap..

 

[revenge]

I also Have the MDR-1Adac. These are unbelievable and any Sony DAP can drive them with Hires digital, by passing analog. Sony was way ahead of the competition 10 years back.. they cost me $450 back in 2015, so not cheap..

Had the Sony MDR-Z1000. I didn't hate it, it was an easy listen but it didn't excel in any department so I sold it. I did like the fit and finish very much though.

I tested two or three generations of their active Bluetooth headphones - overwhelming bass, not detailed / transparent enough for my liking.

I had the amplified CAS-1 system with desktop speakers. I have to say, the DAC / headphone output was decent but the package didn't justify the RRP. Sold.

I had the ZX-507 DAP. I disliked the sound signature so much with my then Focal Stellia, that I sold the headphones. Maybe I should have kept them and tested with a desktop headphone amp instead but I assumed 507 was good enough. Now I know better and I wish I kept the Stellias.

However I really dig the AM2 sound. So there is that.

I also Have the MDR-1Adac. These are unbelievable and any Sony DAP can drive them with Hires digital, by passing analog. Sony was way ahead of the competition 10 years back.. they cost me $450 back in 2015, so not cheap.

Sony was ahead of the crowd with many things. They had the first commercial OLED TV (XEL-1, remember anybody?) in 2007 (!). But it was so expensive and the screen so small that they stopped manufacturing it by 2010.

The cassette Walkman, later the portable CD. E-ink book readers. I can think of many Sony firsts. And 30-40 years ago, Sony sounded glorious. Proper hi-fi credentials, during the golden era of Japanese hi-fi. Does anybody remember the gold Sony stack with SACD?

This beauty was manufactured by Sony Japan about 20 years ago, weighed 16Kg and cost about 3000$. They probably still work.

 

[Vamp898]

Sony did also invent CDs, DAPs and In-Ear Headphones. And they were the first who used BAs that were designed for music instead of using Hearing Aid BAs.

As far as my research goes, they were also the first company who used the following materiels for Diaphragms

Polymer Film
Liquid Crystal Polymer (LCP)
Aluminium Coated LCP (which should be the first metal coated diaphragm too)
Magnesium

Also their BAs are the only BAs using silver coated OFC for the voice coils and Magnesium Diaphragms.

 

[ducnsh]

Sony did also invent CDs, DAPs and In-Ear Headphones. And they were the first who used BAs that were designed for music instead of using Hearing Aid BAs.

As far as my research goes, they were also the first company who used the following materiels for Diaphragms

Polymer Film
Liquid Crystal Polymer (LCP)
Aluminium Coated LCP (which should be the first metal coated diaphragm too)
Magnesium

Also their BAs are the only BAs using silver coated OFC for the voice coils and Magnesium Diaphragms.

Interesting, do you have the interview for the first BA IEM?

 

[Iron-Buddha]

Sony did also invent CDs, DAPs and In-Ear Headphones. And they were the first who used BAs that were designed for music instead of using Hearing Aid BAs.

As far as my research goes, they were also the first company who used the following materiels for Diaphragms

Polymer Film
Liquid Crystal Polymer (LCP)
Aluminium Coated LCP (which should be the first metal coated diaphragm too)
Magnesium

Also their BAs are the only BAs using silver coated OFC for the voice coils and Magnesium Diaphragms.

...which is why I trust Sony engineers to know what they are doing and glad to see they are still funding DAP development.

I also can trust them to do something stupid like cap the output, use a proprietary memory card (looking at you Sony cyber-shot and PSP and Vita), or a proprietary port (looking at you WM-Port).....

I wouldn't touch their mirrorless cameras due to my past (bad) experience with their early cyber-shots. Fujifilm has my loyalty in that department.

Having a service center within 15 minutes of my house that can replace the battery on the ZX-707 did factor into my buying decision. If things go well, will keep my eye out for the AM3 or whatever comes next. I got really tired of having to buy third party batteries, stick them in my electronics and hope they don't explode.

 

[Not so fat head]

...which is why I trust Sony engineers to know what they are doing and glad to see they are still funding DAP development.

I also can trust them to do something stupid like cap the output, use a proprietary memory card (looking at you Sony cyber-shot and PSP and Vita), or a proprietary port (looking at you WM-Port).....

I wouldn't touch their mirrorless cameras due to my past (bad) experience with their early cyber-shots. Fujifilm has my loyalty in that department.

Having a service center within 15 minutes of my house that can replace the battery on the ZX-707 did factor into my buying decision. If things go well, will keep my eye out for the AM3 or whatever comes next. I got really tired of having to buy third party batteries, stick them in my electronics and hope they don't explode.

Yeah, they missed a few... NEX line of mirrorless are good enough, I've picked up a few.. Beta did hurt them, but Sony doesn't stay down long... They're good, and they know it.. They have other businesses (non consumer) that seem to be doing well too.