[revenge]

I listen to Darko all the time while I am cooking. Not sure why he did a whole review and then mentions that a firmware update fixed a lot of his issues in the back third of the review. I don't think you can draw a straight line between the known and measured (by Head-Fi users no less) issue with a 10db drop in the bass shelf on the 306 to the currently unmeasured (with measurements showing no change) drop in bass in the 707.

Apparently the 10db bass drop was not on all 306 units either, so I still think (i) everyone here is being honest about their experiences and measurements (and throwing shade at each other is unproductive), and (ii) unit variance is most likely the culprit on differing opinions. Especially with respect to Sony, I trust their engineering more than their manufacturing quality control. Lemons happen, sometimes lemons happen more than they should. Software, especially built on Android, is a hot mess. So who knows what voodoo misalignment causes some players to go off spec.

Also, if Revenge is used to super high quality gear, and the ZX707 isn't appealing to him/her, that's perfectly fine too. It's a mid-tier DAP and while I think it's competitive in its price bracket (especially imported with a discount and weak FX for Yen), it's not end-game nor is it meant to take out the AM2 and ZM2. The more interesting question is if there is an alternative player at around the same price that is more satisfactory and if the trade-offs are worth it. I still want to try the M6 Ultra to see if their fuller sound is to my liking.

Right now though, this bulge on my Musashino hybrid case is bothering me more than the audio coming out of the player.......I don't think this case is worth considering. I e-mailed them already to see if I got a defect or if this is normal.

I think Apple has done a huge disservice to this small and enthusiastic headphone community and not only that.

Those of you who are into photography might have heard that after decades of reviewing cameras, dpreview, now owned by Amazon, is closing shop. People don’t buy cameras anymore because the phones are getting so much better at it.

People don’t buy DAPs anymore because they have the convenience of Spotify / Apple Music / Qobuz / Tidal and even Roon ARC on their mobile phones. No time wasting with downloading, ripping, transferring music and let’s be honest: how much music can one buy / rip In a lifetime? And how much would that cost and how long it would take? Your small collection will never rival the likes of Spotify.

And of course as most phones have ditched the headphone socket, again courtesy of Apple, there is an increasing market for Bluetooth earphones while the wired earphones are becoming something of a relic.

On my daily London commute, since the beginning of this year, I think I have seen IEM wearers three times. One was all geared up - a shiny A&K DAP, JH customs etc. The others just using a dongle straight out of a mobile phone.

Years ago, a DAP was a synonym for mp3, ie pirated music. Big companies would not have jump on board for that very reason. Now, for most people, the convenience of a pair of bluetooth earphones is king. Even the likes of Bose and Sony are probably suffering with their full size noise reduction cans because you don’t see much of those anymore either since the noise reduction technology has been miniaturised to fit in tiny earplugs which are so much more convenient to transport and use. And that’s your answer.

Apple killed the iPods because they didn’t sell enough to make it a commercially viable business. I expect Sony will give up at some point as well, especially with this new volume cap and all the negative press and customer returns because of it.

Could Chord put a Mojo or a Hugo into a DAP? Maybe. But how much would it cost - R&D, manufacturing etc - and how many people would buy it?

 

[andrewski]

Your small collection will never rival the likes of Spotify.

Spotify will never rival the likes of my small collection. Ever

That's like saying Sony will never rival the likes of Beats. It's a matter of perspective, what you value.

 

[Click]

Mate, I have already told you three times: JH 13 Pro.
https://jhaudio.com/iem?group=custom

Also the AKG K872 (not necessarily a massive fan of the sound but it’s a AKG nostalgia from back in the day which you probably wouldn’t understand but some people here might) and Sennheiser HD800S because it’s a decent headphone for the money which is pretty tame in terms of sound signature and also lightweight (hate the 600g woody cans these days, big clamping pressure etc).

I listen mostly at low/average volume with headphones because my ears are quite sensitive.

People like yourself are strongly opinionated about things they simply have not experienced. I accept that you like the 707 but would you still like it if you would have the chance to play with a AM2? And do you think that you are in a position to advise people like myself to buy a 707 or dissuade them from buying a AM2 based on what you read on the internet?

I came here looking for ways to improve the midling performance of this DAP but I wrote the above opinion because some users have specifically asked that question: is there a big difference between AM2 and 707? And I happen to have an answer for them based on MY experience. Can you say the same?

I never tried to advise or dissuade you or anyone from buying or not buying an AM2. Not sure where you're getting that idea from. You're free to buy or not buy anything you want.

Users did not specifically ask "is there a big difference between AM2 and 707." Maybe very early in the thread from months ago, but you never quoted anyone asking that question. Your first posts in here were aggressively bashing the 707 with extremely hyperbolic statements against it, which was why I responded to you the way I did. Please stop trying to backtrack and revise how you behaved in here.

Since you say you only listen at low to average volume, I can see why you hate the 707 now. If you're unwilling to listen to your headphones and IEM at the proper volume on the 707, there's not much that can be said to show you how the 707 is supposed to sound.

Of course the 707 will sound very underwhelming if you're using it at less than half of its potential. It's like someone driving a Corvette Z06 below the speed limit, then getting angry at how his car is driving so slow and how he's bored driving it when he refuses to step on the gas. It's like how the ignorant TechTubers were purposely using extremely hard to drive headphones with the capped version of the 707, just so they can trash it.

 

[MudEnjoyer]

I expect Sony will give up at some point as well.

It might, but it will take a while. I think a lot of people underestimate how stubborn Sony is. They can operate at a loss for decades in some sectors because they get their revenue somewhere else.

The real issue for me is that it seems they won’t release a non Android DAP ever again.

 

[andrewski]

It might, but it will take a while. I think a lot of people underestimate how stubborn Sony is. They can operate at a loss for decades in some sectors because they get their revenue somewhere else.

The real issue for me is that it seems they won’t release a non Android DAP ever again.

Capped in my region (Canada) is new issue for me. Future devises will need consideration of importing for me

 

[revenge]

"Ignorant YouTubers" are looking at a DAP from the perspective of someone who spends 700$ to use said DAP with whatever headphones they like and I think it is a very reasonable expectation. For around the same price you can get a RME ADI 2 which is a lot of DAC for the money with proper AKM chipsets (ESS more recently) rather than a lame SOC, drive pretty much whatever your heart desires (minus planar headphones), with EQ, crossfeed, remote control, cool VU meters and room for future improvement through regular updates which RME continue to release on a regular basis.

Having to order from Japan to bypass the volume cap, with all the risks such an enterprise entails (getting a brick in the post, damage, loss, long waiting time, expensive shipment fees, customs bills, no warranty) is quite frankly preposterous. I have just received a 150£ customs charge from FedEx. Should I thank Sony for the privilege?

Feel free to read any number of reviews you like on Sony.com and Amazon.com and see the average scores (3-ish) and what the "ignorants" have to say about it: great DAP, no power / volume to speak of, shame on you Sony, DAP sent back for a refund. But be aware that those reviews come from people who are willing to fork out that kind of money for a DAP, ie enthusiasts, not "ignorant YouTubers".

Astell&Kern don't do it. Chinese manufacturers don't do it. No other brand of DAP on the market that I am aware of does it. Isn't this a valid reason for the "ignorants" to complain? Shouldn't Sony give you the OPTION to limit volume as they did in the past, rather than deciding on your behalf what amount of power is safe (exactly 1.1mW) for your ears?

Should these DAPs be so severely underpowered? Accepting that we are using a subpar SOC purely from a SQ perspective, shouldn't Sony do their due diligence and trim the Android OS themselves like A&K to offer you the fluid experience you expect and deserve for your hard earned cash?

Shouldn't they support new OS-es, as any decent phone manufacturer, for at least 3 years from the date of purchase? And the list goes on.

My "hyperbolic" statements are based on common sense and my audiophile experience, which is quite extensive. You sound more like a Sony fanboy. And if you are happy in those shoes, keep walking mate. Never mind the odd "ignorant". Stay on that road, don't look left or right because you might get dizzy. Keep reading those reviews that validate your opinion and trash everything and everyone else. Enjoy.

 

[Click]

"Ignorant YouTubers" are looking at a DAP from the perspective of someone who spends 700$ to use said DAP with whatever headphones they like and I think it is a very reasonable expectation. For around the same price you can get a RME ADI 2 which is a lot of DAC for the money with proper AKM chipsets (ESS more recently) rather than a lame SOC, drive pretty much whatever your heart desires (minus planar headphones), with EQ, crossfeed, remote control, cool VU meters and room for future improvement through regular updates which RME continue to release on a regular basis.

Having to order from Japan to bypass the volume cap, with all the risks such an enterprise entails (getting a brick in the post, damage, loss, long waiting time, expensive shipment fees, customs bills, no warranty) is quite frankly preposterous. I have just received a 150£ customs charge from FedEx. Should I thank Sony for the privilege?

Feel free to read any number of reviews you like on Sony.com and Amazon.com and see the average scores (3-ish) and what the "ignorants" have to say about it: great DAP, no power / volume to speak of, shame on you Sony, DAP sent back for a refund. But be aware that those reviews come from people who are willing to fork out that kind of money for a DAP, ie enthusiasts, not "ignorant YouTubers".

Astell&Kern don't do it. Chinese manufacturers don't do it. No other brand of DAP on the market that I am aware of does it. Isn't this a valid reason for the "ignorants" to complain? Shouldn't Sony give you the OPTION to limit volume as they did in the past, rather than deciding on your behalf what amount of power is safe (exactly 1.1mW) for your ears?

Should these DAPs be so severely underpowered? Accepting that we are using a subpar SOC purely from a SQ perspective, shouldn't Sony do their due diligence and trim the Android OS themselves like A&K to offer you the fluid experience you expect and deserve for your hard earned cash?

Shouldn't they support new OS-es, as any decent phone manufacturer, for at least 3 years from the date of purchase? And the list goes on.

My "hyperbolic" statements are based on common sense and my audiophile experience, which is quite extensive. You sound more like a Sony fanboy. And if you are happy in those shoes, keep walking mate. Never mind the odd "ignorant". Stay on that road, don't look left or right because you might get dizzy. Keep reading those reviews that validate your opinion and trash everything and everyone else. Enjoy.

LMAO

You ranting about the capped ZX707 is something I've already talked about and criticized Sony for, way before you came in here to take a dump on the 707.

Sony fanboy? Not even close. I've said multiple times and even when responding to you, that Sony is dumb af to nerf their new Walkmans by capping the volume. I've said it's not worth buying a capped 707.

Keep reading those reviews that validate your opinion and trash everything and everyone else.

I'm not the one reading all of those negative reviews on Amazon, Sony's website, or YouTube like you are. Might want to look in the mirror.

Should these DAPs be so severely underpowered? Accepting that we are using a subpar SOC purely from a SQ perspective, shouldn't Sony do their due diligence and trim the Android OS themselves like A&K to offer you the fluid experience you expect and deserve for your hard earned cash?

You realize the SoC in the 707 is a special version of the Snapdragon 665, right? Which is on par or better than most DAPs, even top of the line DAPs. The AM2 you keep using to compare against the 707 is using a far inferior SoC. It's slower than a Snapdragon 429. You keep criticizing the 707's SoC without even knowing anything about it.

But go ahead and keep calling me a fanboy, making ridiculous comments, trying to gaslight everyone to believe your intentions coming here wasn't to bash the 707 from the onset of your arrival, and touting your extensive "audiophile experience," while you refuse to use the 707 at a proper volume. Nothing more to say to someone like you. Ignored.

 

[andrewski]

Hi. Sony fanboy here

Shouldn't they support new OS-es, as any decent phone manufacturer, for at least 3 years from the date of purchase? And the list goes on.

No. I don't want Google deciding what's best for my Walkman. They tend to remove more features than they add. Many LG owners feel the same way.

And yeah. I'm not sure what this is really about. Maybe you just need a hug

 

[Iron-Buddha]

Should these DAPs be so severely underpowered? Accepting that we are using a subpar SOC purely from a SQ perspective, shouldn't Sony do their due diligence and trim the Android OS themselves like A&K to offer you the fluid experience you expect and deserve for your hard earned cash?

Shouldn't they support new OS-es, as any decent phone manufacturer, for at least 3 years from the date of purchase? And the list goes on.

Uh....ok.... you can't say stuff like this and expect to be taken seriously. AK released the SP2000 in 2021 for US$3,500 and it runs Android 8. Roon Arc is also not supported on the SP2000T because the processor isn't powerful enough. That's a $2,400 device launched in late 2021. Neither of them provide a "fluid user experience" or updated software. The SP3000 is $3700 and launched in 2023 running closed Android 11. Now, the real comparable from the AK line is the Norma series and they don't stack up well against the ZX707. The new AK SR35 still costs more than what I paid for the ZX707 and they won't disclose which version of Android it is running or what SOC it has.

The SP3000 that just launched for $3,700 uses the 665 as well.

 

[holsen]

Ever hopeful, always curious, and endlessly searching, I just bit the bullet and picked up an uncapped AM2 with less than 50 hours on it. I should have it late next week and will be patient with the burn-in. I sure did like the form factor - look & feel - of the 707 but I'm trusting the the AM2 to suit my musical tastes much better and I'm happy about the extended battery life too.

 

[andrewski]

Ever hopeful, always curious, and endlessly searching, I just bit the bullet and picked up an uncapped AM2 with less than 50 hours on it. I should have it late next week and will be patient with the burn-in. I sure did like the form factor - look & feel - of the 707 but I'm trusting the the AM2 to suit my musical tastes much better and I'm happy about the extended battery life too.

My favourite (of many changes) was just after 160 hours on the AM2. Seemed to level out near 300, with moments of 'I swear this is getting even better' near 500 and after 900 hours - all on balanced. I have 230 hours unbalanced. I thoroughly loved the process. Started all over with the ZM2 at 70 hours now. Can't wait for 160 again.
I have no measurements for my opinion.

Sorry for the hijack, ZX707 Rocks!

 

[revenge]

My favourite (of many changes) was just after 160 hours on the AM2. Seemed to level out near 300, with moments of 'I swear this is getting even better' near 500 and after 900 hours - all on balanced. I have 230 hours unbalanced. I thoroughly loved the process. Started all over with the ZM2 at 70 hours now. Can't wait for 160 again.
I have no measurements for my opinion.

Sorry for the hijack, ZX707 Rocks!

How is ZM2 compared to AM2? I understand that the main hardware differences are the more rigid case (copper) and higher quality internal wiring (Kimber).

I will sell my 707 so wondering if the ZM2 justifies the premium over AM2.

 

[revenge]

Ever hopeful, always curious, and endlessly searching, I just bit the bullet and picked up an uncapped AM2 with less than 50 hours on it. I should have it late next week and will be patient with the burn-in. I sure did like the form factor - look & feel - of the 707 but I'm trusting the the AM2 to suit my musical tastes much better and I'm happy about the extended battery life too.

I am looking forward to hear your views on AM2. I trust you will not be disappointed.

 

[andrewski]

How is ZM2 compared to AM2? I understand that the main hardware differences are the more rigid case (copper) and higher quality internal wiring (Kimber).

I will sell my 707 so wondering if the ZM2 justifies the premium over AM2.

I'm still a deer in headlights. Still forming an opinion. I knew it was better in every way in under 30 seconds. It shouldn't sound this different. Seems impossible. More bass, more oomph, seems louder. Only gone back to the AM2 while charging the ZM2. AM2 seems so much thinner at first, less volume? Takes half an hour to completely fall in love with it again, good layering and transparency. So yeah, so far I recommend the ZM2 (or AM2) to anyone psychotic enough to buy one.

And ZX707 Rocks!

 

[MudEnjoyer]

Astell&Kern don't do it. Chinese manufacturers don't do it. No other brand of DAP on the market that I am aware of does it. Isn't this a valid reason for the "ignorants" to complain? Shouldn't Sony give you the OPTION to limit volume as they did in the past, rather than deciding on your behalf what amount of power is safe (exactly 1.1mW) for your ears?

I think you’re barking at the wrong tree. This is just the shape of things to come.