[The1Signature]

hi, I've heard difference between cables, I don't care, thanks, bye!

i don't want to join the discussion in terms of cables. What i can say is that i hear the difference from stock cable to an expensive silver upgrade cable.

however, this is a big however... I like to challenge friends who claim to be audiophiles, critical listeners etc. to do a blind test. And they basically always lose when the change is not that big. So comparing 2 good cables, comparing 2 good devices, comparing anything on the "more or less" same good level.

but difference between a stock cable and high end super silver cable... they, and me too, hear the difference.

"almost anything beyond" that extreme differences, whenever i test them with a blind test, they lose, again and again and again. please don't get me wrong. I would wish they would always win the test and feel proud of their "i tested 20 cables, this one for 2k dollar is the best one, even the other ones for 1k are not that good..." would be backed with truth and confidence. But the reality i confront them and the results are just different.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

i don't want to join the discussion in terms of cables. What i can say is that i hear the difference from stock cable to an expensive silver upgrade cable.

however, this is a big however... I like to challenge friends who claim to be audiophiles, critical listeners etc. to do a blind test. And they basically always lose when the change is not that big. So comparing 2 good cables, comparing 2 good devices, comparing anything on the "more or less" same good level.

but difference between a stock cable and high end super silver cable... they, and me too, hear the difference.

"almost anything beyond" that extreme differences, whenever i test them with a blind test, they lose, again and again and again.

I do agree with you on this one, cable quality does hit a plateau aswell, which you may notice maybe small signature changes, or if exotic materials are involved (which I tend to dislike)

at the end of the day it also depends on the individual, not only how good is your hearing, but how much do you care, my brother couldn't care less for the difference between a pair of cfa solaris 2020 paired with n6ii r01, and his bluetooth gbuds.

I doubt normal people will notice a big differences, really.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

Then get rich! Not just would you get rich, you would also be able to end all discussions on head-fi once an for all. As soon someone is able to proof it, there are no longer any discussions

hey man if you can arrange me a meeting with rich people willing to pay for me to test cables, sure, until then, how am I supposed to get rich?

 

[10DeeQ]

Hi so im asking here once again after doing some research but still can’t find an answer.

So i installed a hi res audio system in my car
It uses a DSP amp
A Helix P Six Ultimate.
It has several inputs,

- Optical digital SPDIF
- Coaxial digital input
- RCA input
- HD Bluetooth aptx

What I’m asking is that is there a way to make make the Wm1Am2 to have a coaxial output ? is there such thing as USB-C to coaxial cable or adapter ?

Cause as far as i know coaxial will give me best result in terms if sound quality.

Lot’s of my friend are using Astell and Kern DAPs in their car and feed it using the optical Spdif as astell and kern also dont have coaxial output, and they sounded not bad, but when i tried using my Wm1Am2 to connect using 3.5mm to rca , it sounded so muted .
Currently im using Bluetooth connection but im still searching for a way to make the Wm1Am2 to output coaxial.

If there’s no watmy then maybe I’ll get a cheap ibasso dx170 dap that have coaxial output and use it exclusively in my car.

Thank you

 

[Vamp898]

hey man if you can arrange me a meeting with rich people willing to pay for me to test cables, sure, until then, how am I supposed to get rich?

This is complicated to calculate as the values are not linear, but for example if you have an 32 Ohm Headphone, you would have to change the impedance to 40 Ohm to be able to hear an difference of 1db.

If you have an 64 Ohm Headphone, you would have to increase the restistance to 80 Ohm for an difference of 1db.

When you have an cable that is 1.5 meters long, the difference between copper and silver is, worst case, 0.01 Ohm. The actual value is much lower because this calculation uses very thick cables, it is roughly 0.0004 Ohm in reality, but just take 0.01 Ohm as granted as the worst case. We want to push things, right? Maybe you want to use an speaker cable for your heapdhones

This value is so small, that you would say, you are able to hear an difference of below 0.1db

If you have absolutely perfect hearing and you're a trained professional, you might be able to pickup a difference of 0.5db but that difference would be microscopic small. That is something you could only hear if you are listening in an perfect environment with an High End Monitor and you are going back and forth several times on an song you know inside out. And thats 0.5db.

We are talking about <0.1db and people saying they instantly were able to hear the difference. So you ears are that insanely good, that a difference of below 0.1db was an obvious and instantly noticable difference?

You would be in every media possible. CNN, NBC and FOX NEWS would have wrestling fights over who is allowed to interview you first.

But of course, the plugs and so on have to be the same quality. A lot of cable makers use plugs with an high ohm count (50 Ohms and more) or even implement resistors (which does the exact opposite of what you want from an silver cable, lower the resistence) to influence the frequency response.

Because they know exactly that audiophiles think that silver sounds clearer, so they increase the resistance (again, that is the opposite of what you want from an silver cable) to make it sound clearer. That is of course unrelated to the cable material.
In that case, the difference comes from the plug and if you would put the exact same plug on an copper cable, you would have the same sound again.

So the cables are allowed to be different (copper, silver, gold or an mix of whatever you want), but the plugs have to be the same, that is essential to know. Again, the differences between plugs can be more than 50 Ohm, so cables can sound different, but not because of the cable material, but because of the plug (which is an insanely cheap piece).

So it could happen that you buy an 4000€ cables and it actually sounds different, but because the 1€ plug that is connecting to the DAP is causing the difference. So basically you don't know how the silver cable sounds because the plug is completely masking the sound.

Audiophile companies, especially the ones targeting the customers with bigger budgets, are kown to cheat and rip people off, that is something common.

So most likely the expensive, audiophile cable has a bad plug and that is what you're hearing.

 

[Vamp898]

Hi so im asking here once again after doing some research but still can’t find an answer.

So i installed a hi res audio system in my car
It uses a DSP amp
A Helix P Six Ultimate.
It has several inputs,

- Optical digital SPDIF
- Coaxial digital input
- RCA input
- HD Bluetooth aptx

What I’m asking is that is there a way to make make the Wm1Am2 to have a coaxial output ? is there such thing as USB-C to coaxial cable or adapter ?

Cause as far as i know coaxial will give me best result in terms if sound quality.

Lot’s of my friend are using Astell and Kern DAPs in their car and feed it using the optical Spdif as astell and kern also dont have coaxial output, and they sounded not bad, but when i tried using my Wm1Am2 to connect using 3.5mm to rca , it sounded so muted .
Currently im using Bluetooth connection but im still searching for a way to make the Wm1Am2 to output coaxial.

If there’s no watmy then maybe I’ll get a cheap ibasso dx170 dap that have coaxial output and use it exclusively in my car.

Thank you

There is an USB-C to COAX Adapter from ddHifi, but never tested it. It might work though.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

This is complicated to calculate as the values are not linear, but for example if you have an 32 Ohm Headphone, you would have to change the impedance to 40 Ohm to be able to hear an difference of 1db.

If you have an 64 Ohm Headphone, you would have to increase the restistance to 80 Ohm for an difference of 1db.

When you have an cable that is 1.5 meters long, the difference between copper and silver is, worst case, 0.01 Ohm. The actual value is much lower because this calculation uses very thick cables, it is roughly 0.0004 Ohm in reality, but just take 0.01 Ohm as granted as the worst case. We want to push things, right? Maybe you want to use an speaker cable for your heapdhones

This value is so small, that you would say, you are able to hear an difference of below 0.1db

If you have absolutely perfect hearing and you're a trained professional, you might be able to pickup a difference of 0.5db but that difference would be microscopic small. That is something you could only hear if you are listening in an perfect environment with an High End Monitor and you are going back and forth several times on an song you know inside out. And thats 0.5db.

We are talking about <0.1db and people saying they instantly were able to hear the difference. So you ears are that insanely good, that a difference of below 0.1db was an obvious and instantly noticable difference?

You would be in every media possible. CNN, NBC and FOX NEWS would have wrestling fights over who is allowed to interview you first.

But of course, the plugs and so on have to be the same quality. A lot of cable makers use plugs with an high ohm count (50 Ohms and more) or even implement resistors (which does the exact opposite of what you want from an silver cable, lower the resistence) to influence the frequency response.

Because they know exactly that audiophiles think that silver sounds clearer, so they increase the resistance (again, that is the opposite of what you want from an silver cable) to make it sound clearer. That is of course unrelated to the cable material.
In that case, the difference comes from the plug and if you would put the exact same plug on an copper cable, you would have the same sound again.

So the cables are allowed to be different (copper, silver, gold or an mix of whatever you want), but the plugs have to be the same, that is essential to know. Again, the differences between plugs can be more than 50 Ohm, so cables can sound different, but not because of the cable material, but because of the plug (which is an insanely cheap piece).

So it could happen that you buy an 4000€ cables and it actually sounds different, but because the 1€ plug that is connecting to the DAP is causing the difference. So basically you don't know how the silver cable sounds because the plug is completely masking the sound.

Audiophile companies, especially the ones targeting the customers with bigger budgets, are kown to cheat and rip people off, that is something common.

So most likely the expensive, audiophile cable has a bad plug and that is what you're hearing.

i don't know man, i just hear sound differences between cables

 

[Vamp898]

i don't know man, i just hear sound differences between cables

If there really is a difference, and one cable is not broken (or has oxidation, that is audible very well), than its the plug and not the cable.

I have several cables. Pure Copper, Copper with silver coat, pure silver and they all sound 100% the same on all earphones i have. There is absolutely no difference.

And i can hear differences of 0.5db in an mix i made myself knowing exactly where to listen. So if any of my cables have any difference, that is below 0.5db for sure.

And for an difference of 0.5db, again, you have to listen very very closely and know the song exactly inside out. That is something people who do mixing and mastering might be able to pickup with full control over the single tracks, but if i would listen to any song i have not heard yet, and it would play 2 times with an 0.5db difference, i would not notice it, not at all.

If you hear differences in cables, its not cable but the plug (or one cable is broken). The difference between silver and copper is way to small to be audilbe by any human being, even with the most perfect hearing

 

[The1Signature]

i don't know man, i just hear sound differences between cables

this is what my friends with 10+ cables from 200 to 4k euro ones also say until they all of them lose 100% in a blind test.

 

[ducnsh]

If the plug , or something else makes a 50Ohms difference between cables, I think that the first thing we hear when swapping cables is the loudness before hearing the difference in the FR.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

If there really is a difference, and one cable is not broken (or has oxidation, that is audible very well), than its the plug and not the cable.

I have several cables. Pure Copper, Copper with silver coat, pure silver and they all sound 100% the same on all earphones i have. There is absolutely no difference.

And i can hear differences of 0.5db in an mix i made myself knowing exactly where to listen. So if any of my cables have any difference, that is below 0.5db for sure.

And for an difference of 0.5db, again, you have to listen very very closely and know the song exactly inside out. That is something people who do mixing and mastering might be able to pickup with full control over the single tracks, but if i would listen to any song i have not heard yet, and it would play 2 times with an 0.5db difference, i would not notice it, not at all.

If you hear differences in cables, its not cable but the plug (or one cable is broken). The difference between silver and copper is way to small to be audilbe by any human being, even with the most perfect hearing

I've heard my fair share of cables, the most noticable differences are with exotic materials, personally I prefer occ of either copper, silver, or both, but not plating (spc for example, although the ier z1r cable is terrific)

I don't know man, many people told me my ears were golden, that may just be the case.

End of the day even a person like me who does hear differences would recommend a proper good high quality occ copper/silver/both over any of the exotic ones (maybe they have potential but I do not have the money nor power to start searching)

End of the day I think that if cables really did not matter at all, the audiophile game would look far different, with most iems boasting extremely thin but durable cables wrapped in cloth or something that can survive years while being comfortable and soft.

iirc, the only difference between the wm1am2 and wm1zm2 is the kimber cable and gold chassis, pretty sure in M2 the caps are all the same as opposed to M1 where the wm1z had 4 extra.

thoughts on that? would you say that the sound quality difference between the models comes from software, cables, or both?

 

[justsomesonyfan]

this is what my friends with 10+ cables from 200 to 4k euro ones also say until they all of them lose 100% in a blind test.

hey man, if I had the opportunity to listen to those and do a blindtest too, I would, I only did 1 small blind test and have discovered cables through changing a cable for convenience then hearing a difference.

From my experience with cables, they undoubtedly change sound, but you're not going to see any benefit over i don't know, about 300 usd? if you find a proper company that doesn't shoot their prices to the moon, that price can get you a very nice high quality occ cable which is pretty much as good as it gets.

 

[Vamp898]

If the plug , or something else makes a 50Ohms difference between cables, I think that the first thing we hear when swapping cables is the loudness before hearing the difference in the FR.

When its an 64 Ohm Headphone, it would be slightly below 1db.

Also resistence is not linear. That is why the capacitors and the output restiance in amps do matter.

So it could be that the difference in resistance is 64 Ohm at 1kHz but 100 Ohm at 125 Hz and only 30 Ohm beyond 4kHz and so on.

As resistance is, sadly, mostly only measured at 1kHz, nobody really knows.

But there are, of course, limitations of what you are able to archive with an plug

 

[andrewski]

Anyone interested in Swissbit microSD, and how it improved my Xperia over BT?

Seriously, it did

 

[ttt123]

Hi so im asking here once again after doing some research but still can’t find an answer.

So i installed a hi res audio system in my car
It uses a DSP amp
A Helix P Six Ultimate.
It has several inputs,

- Optical digital SPDIF
- Coaxial digital input
- RCA input
- HD Bluetooth aptx

What I’m asking is that is there a way to make make the Wm1Am2 to have a coaxial output ? is there such thing as USB-C to coaxial cable or adapter ?

Cause as far as i know coaxial will give me best result in terms if sound quality.

Lot’s of my friend are using Astell and Kern DAPs in their car and feed it using the optical Spdif as astell and kern also dont have coaxial output, and they sounded not bad, but when i tried using my Wm1Am2 to connect using 3.5mm to rca , it sounded so muted .
Currently im using Bluetooth connection but im still searching for a way to make the Wm1Am2 to output coaxial.

If there’s no watmy then maybe I’ll get a cheap ibasso dx170 dap that have coaxial output and use it exclusively in my car.

Thank you

The capability would have to be built into the circuit design. As far as I know, the Sony engineers did not plan for it, so there is no way to extract a coaxial signal.