[WAmadeusM]

There is no analoue delivery stage. Its an Full Digital Amp, its full digital from start to beginning right before the speaker.

The discussion above is about the DMP-Z1. Thats an Analog Amp that is unrelated to the Full Digital Amp in the Walkman.

The DMP-Z1 uses an AKM DAC and an Ti Analog Amp. The Walkman uses the S-Master HX which are two completely different approaches and designs.

When you change the gain switch on the DMP-Z1, you change the voltage of the Ti Amp, that is true. Because Analog Amps have no real volume control, they only have gains. The Volume control is implemented in the DAC (with modern Analog amps. The DMP-Z1 uses an older AKM DAC so they put an potentiometer between the DAC and the Analog Amp to control the volume. Its garbage imho. It works but thats the caveman solution to the problem.)

But with an Full Digital Amp, the Volume Control is on the Amp. That means the volume you set is the voltage the amps run with. If you set the same Volume, the amp runs with the exact same voltage. The High-Gain Switch is really just a remapping of the volume, nothing more.

Explain this.

https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/sony-nw-wm1zm2/

 

[Vamp898]

Explain this.


https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/sony-nw-wm1zm2/

That matches 1:1 exactly to what i said. There is nothing to explain. These screenshots agree with everything i said.

Volume Control = Voltage Control. Perfectly described in form of images.

On High Gain, the Volume is remapped to allow you to go higher (but have less steps).

On Low Gain, you have 120 Steps with 0Vrms being the lowest and 0.6Vrms being the highest.
On High Gain, you have 120 Steps with 0Vrms being the lowest and 2Vrms being the highest.

So you have less fine volume control, but you can go higher in total.

068/120 on Low Gain and 046/120 on High Gain are the exact same Volume and have the same Voltage so they will sound 100% identical.

Again, its an Full Digital Amp, that is how Full Digital Amps work. The Volume Control tells you, how strong the Amp ampliyfies (by increasing the voltage), you do not need any further volume control ICs or something like that.

That is completely different to an Analog Amp.

On an Analog amp the 120/120 Volume Control, Controls the output Signal of the DAC and the Gain Switch, controls, how strong the Analog Amp will amplify that signal.

Thats completely different.

For example if 060/120 on High Gain and 120/120 on Low Gain are the exact same Volume, unlike with Digital Amps, there will be a difference.

Volume	Gain	DAC Volume	Amp Volume
120/120	Low	100%	50%
060/120	High	50%	100%

Because the DAC and the Amp, both perform different on 50% and 100%, the result will be different. So 060/120 on High Gain and 120/120 on Low Gain are not the same even though it will result in the same volume.

On Low Gain you have an very big and noise free input signal that you only need to amplify a tiny bit (best case).
On High Gain, you have an very low input signal with more noise and you have to boost that a lot (worst case).

But with the S-Master HX, its different, because its an Full Digital Amp (for the purpose of simplification, we will just say that 060/120 is 50% volume of 120/120 and that High Gain is double the power, its getting too complicated otherwise and too confusing)

Volume	Gain	Amp Volume
120/120	Low	50%
060/120	High	50%

You see, its the same. Because its an Full Digital Amp. The S-Master HX will do the exact same things on 120/120 Low Gain and on 060/120 High Gain. It will have the identical performance.

The S-Master HX is made with switching MOSFET. If you are amplifying with the same Voltage, the result will always be the same.

There is no reason why the MOSFET should behave different on High Gain than on Low Gain, why would they? There is no need and no reason to.

That is all the High Gain Switch does. It remaps, what is 120/120 and the steps in between. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[andrewski]

So it sounds the same, but low is cleaner, so it doesn't sound the same.

Edit: must be why most of us prefer low gain.

 

[Aquileolus]

Hi guys, have some question about my new wm1zm2 battery life
The unit is just about 1 week old, I did a experiment today, playing locally CD quality FLAC files for 1 hour, and it consume 5% of battery (from 44% to 39%), I turnned off everything else based on the optimization guide, no wifi, on airplane mode, Direct Source On, even turned on Battery Saver mode, I don't know what else I can to to get longer battery life...
if 1 hour consume 5%, the whole battery life is at most 20 hours, far from the claimed 40 hours by Sony...
Wondering is this normal for 1zm2 or I got a defective unit?

 

[WAmadeusM]

That matches 1:1 exactly to what i said. There is nothing to explain. These screenshots agree with everything i said.

Volume Control = Voltage Control. Perfectly described in form of images.

On High Gain, the Volume is remapped to allow you to go higher (but have less steps).

On Low Gain, you have 120 Steps with 0Vrms being the lowest and 0.6Vrms being the highest.
On High Gain, you have 120 Steps with 0Vrms being the lowest and 2Vrms being the highest.

So you have less fine volume control, but you can go higher in total.

068/120 on Low Gain and 046/120 on High Gain are the exact same Volume and have the same Voltage so they will sound 100% identical.

Again, its an Full Digital Amp, that is how Full Digital Amps work. The Volume Control tells you, how strong the Amp ampliyfies (by increasing the voltage), you do not need any further volume control ICs or something like that.

That is completely different to an Analog Amp.

On an Analog amp the 120/120 Volume Control, Controls the output Signal of the DAC and the Gain Switch, controls, how strong the Analog Amp will amplify that signal.

Thats completely different.

For example if 060/120 on High Gain and 120/120 on Low Gain are the exact same Volume, unlike with Digital Amps, there will be a difference.

Volume	Gain	DAC Volume	Amp Volume
120/120	Low	100%	50%
060/120	High	50%	100%

Because the DAC and the Amp, both perform different on 50% and 100%, the result will be different. So 060/120 on High Gain and 120/120 on Low Gain are not the same even though it will result in the same volume.

On Low Gain you have an very big and noise free input signal that you only need to amplify a tiny bit (best case).
On High Gain, you have an very low input signal with more noise and you have to boost that a lot (worst case).

But with the S-Master HX, its different, because its an Full Digital Amp (for the purpose of simplification, we will just say that 060/120 is 50% volume of 120/120 and that High Gain is double the power, its getting too complicated otherwise and too confusing)

Volume	Gain	Amp Volume
120/120	Low	50%
060/120	High	50%

You see, its the same. Because its an Full Digital Amp. The S-Master HX will do the exact same things on 120/120 Low Gain and on 060/120 High Gain. It will have the identical performance.

The S-Master HX is made with switching MOSFET. If you are amplifying with the same Voltage, the result will always be the same.

There is no reason why the MOSFET should behave different on High Gain than on Low Gain, why would they? There is no need and no reason to.

That is all the High Gain Switch does. It remaps, what is 120/120 and the steps in between. Nothing more, nothing less.

No.

Not convinced: "I highly doubt that"

Try again.

 

[davidmolliere]

Volume	Gain	Amp Volume
120/120	Low	50%
060/120	High	50%

You see, its the same. Because its an Full Digital Amp. The S-Master HX will do the exact same things on 120/120 Low Gain and on 060/120 High Gain. It will have the identical performance.
The S-Master HX is made with switching MOSFET. If you are amplifying with the same Voltage, the result will always be the same.
There is no reason why the MOSFET should behave different on High Gain than on Low Gain, why would they? There is no need and no reason to.
That is all the High Gain Switch does. It remaps, what is 120/120 and the steps in between. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's all beautifully reasonable and logical.

I tried again just to be sure with the Ely 120/120 against 60/120 and... I don't have a SPL meter but it sure sounds just wrong from my standpoint.

One is clearly the Ely underpowered while the other is not.
It's not even close... so it's not like I am trying to split hair : it's very obvious and I am curious as to what the experience of Elysium owners is (I'll ask on that thread...).

I think I'll simply enjoy the Elysium the way I want it on the 1ZM2 if you'll allow me despite engineering explanations :

a) I don't hear any noise or distorsion

b) One option is clearly working for me (high gain) while the other is not (low gain)
(well, to be fair on some tracks and album I need up to 80 in high gain and no, it's not because I push the volume unreasonably, now note I don't use dynamic normalizer as I never do this might explain that...)

Last but not least why JP version is uncapped?
Why not cap all DAPs then if 100mW powers all IEMs?
I am confused...

Also I don't see why Sony added High Gain to their DAP if it's not to be used.
There must be another explanation other than "audiophiles are delusional".

I sure don't use High Gain with all my other IEMs because I don't need it.
With the Ely, I do.
No big deal really.

Is that the way to respond to someone who said thanks:

"In an blind test? You can hear an difference? Wow, you would be the first human ever on this planet, i highly doubt that"

I think we shouldn't discount the fact english is not our native language, stuff get lost in translation or at least I don't see any other reason
I don't really take any offense as I trust what I am hearing and second I can do whatever I please and owning the truth has never been a belief of mine.

I respect engineering and science, I just don't reconcile my experience and what my experience is supposed to be.
That's quite simple.

 

[KeaneShadow]

No.

Not convinced: "I highly doubt that"

Try again.

Bruh, what is the point of arguing back and forth about this? Our ability to hear is such an subjective sense, just use your DAP the way that brings you the best listening experience. Go take some engineering classes if you are really interested in learning about the inner workings of your DAP.

 

[Aquileolus]

Hi guys, have some question about my new wm1zm2 battery life
The unit is just about 1 week old, I did a experiment today, playing locally CD quality FLAC files for 1 hour, and it consume 5% of battery (from 44% to 39%), I turnned off everything else based on the optimization guide, no wifi, on airplane mode, Direct Source On, even turned on Battery Saver mode, I don't know what else I can to to get longer battery life...
if 1 hour consume 5%, the whole battery life is at most 20 hours, far from the claimed 40 hours by Sony...
Wondering is this normal for 1zm2 or I got a defective unit?

Wondering has anyone done similar test? On the fense of returning this.... btw 5% per hour is with High-res streaming on, with that off it was 4% per hour, still far from even 30 hours playback time... thought that won't matter when playing local files with built-in player

 

[ducnsh]

Wondering has anyone done similar test? On the fense of returning this.... btw 5% per hour is with High-res streaming on, with that off it was 4% per hour, still far from even 30 hours playback time... thought that won't matter when playing local files with built-in player

As I remember, 40 hours from the Specs are running mp3 files with the medium volume on 3.5 Single-Ended. I used to play my 1AM2 8 hours per day (offline, mixed 44.1, 96 and 192Khz, DSEE on, High-res streaming on, 4.4 with 40 volume), it usually drained ~35% for 8 hours.

 

[Aquileolus]

As I remember, 40 hours from the Specs are running mp3 files with the medium volume on 3.5 Single-Ended. I used to play my 1AM2 8 hours per day (offline, mixed 44.1, 96 and 192Khz, DSEE on, High-res streaming on, 4.4 with 40 volume), it usually drained ~35% for 8 hours.

Thanks for the datapoint, but according to Sony https://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/nwwm1m2/v1/en/contents/TP1000521634.html
even on 4.4 with 96KHz FLAC, it should last 40 hours...

 

[ducnsh]

Thanks for the datapoint, but according to Sony https://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/nwwm1m2/v1/en/contents/TP1000521634.html
even on 4.4 with 96KHz FLAC, it should last 40 hours...

I think that value comes from "perfect" conditions such as do not configure anything (from scratch), playing a single file in the loop, ... Btw, as I know, the other M2 players are the same battery life as your device (including mine), do not need to worry about it.

 

[zeroshiki]

Thanks for the datapoint, but according to Sony https://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/nwwm1m2/v1/en/contents/TP1000521634.html
even on 4.4 with 96KHz FLAC, it should last 40 hours...

Someone suggested to try rebuilding the database, that helped me with the same case you got:
My AM2 unit usually consumes 3% per hour, then it suddenly consumes 4 to 5% per hour(if im not wrong, i just updated the firmware that time). I try the suggested method above and it returned to normal 3% per hour

 

[Aquileolus]

Thanks both for the input, I will try to rebuild the database and try

 

[ChrisLN]

I think the battery time depends heavily on how often you turn on the screen and flipping songs/albums. I've noticed if I play a very long playlist without turning on the screen in the middle, it consumed much less power. Sony's data may be assuming straight song playing without interruptions, granted unrealistic scenario...

 

[somnarium]

Another consideration is battery capacity display is indicative and point in time so may not be best to extrapolate overall life from a small portion of use/discharge.
If a new unit, maybe an initial full discharge and charge cycle can also help with reading accuracy.

None of these comments are based on known facts by the way. Just an idea