SONY NW-WM1Z M2 / WM1A M2
Mar 10, 2024 at 6:59 AM Post #14,731 of 15,987
Thanks for the detailed info. Sorry for my ignorance about the basic behavior of S-Master. If we feed DSD natively to it, does it just do simple 1-bit DSD to Analog converstion, i.e. no Delta-Sigma Modulation involve?

I was asking because I am doing PCM (44.1k / 48k) to DSD256 upsampling (with HQPlayer) before feeding it to the S-Master in WM1Z. Just want to make sure that I am doing something that makes sense.
There are more detailed explanations of the S-Master in this thread. There is no Delta-Sigma involved, as the S-Master is a Direct Digital implementation, which does not use any DS chip. S-Master does not do D to A conversion. It is Digital all the way, from input to output. The source pulse stream drives an output pulse stream which is filtered, and becomes the output to drive the earphones. Another way to put it is that the D/A conversion is done digitally, and without using any DS chip.

I cannot remember exactly how a DSD source is handled. I believe it would be fed directly to the S-Master. I suppose you can try both and see what you prefer, as you never know if the offboard upsampling to DSD is better than what the Sony would do with it's internal conversion.
 
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Mar 10, 2024 at 9:07 AM Post #14,732 of 15,987
There are more detailed explanations of the S-Master in this thread. There is no Delta-Sigma involved, as the S-Master is a Direct Digital implementation, which does not use any DS chip. S-Master does not do D to A conversion. It is Digital all the way, from input to output. The source pulse stream drives an output pulse stream which is filtered, and becomes the output to drive the earphones. Another way to put it is that the D/A conversion is done digitally, and without using any DS chip.

I cannot remember exactly how a DSD source is handled. I believe it would be fed directly to the S-Master. I suppose you can try both and see what you prefer, as you never know if the offboard upsampling to DSD is better than what the Sony would do with its internal conversion.
There’s no internal conversion with balanced port dsd output, you get Native DSD Playback. However 3.5mm port is down converted to PCM.
 
Mar 10, 2024 at 12:30 PM Post #14,733 of 15,987
I think this is a result of the architecture simplicity of the S-Master, with it's Direct Digital design/no analog Amp stage.
- Due to the simple/short signal path, changes are more apparent. i.e. changes to filtering, slew rate, noise shaping, timing accuracy, feedback, (changing limitations/amount/etc) have an obvious effect on the sound
- DS (Delta-Sigma) with it's much more complex circuits, over sampling noise shaping, etc., all output being buffered by a separate Analog Amp stage, becomes a much more complex buffer that absorbs the effect of changes.
- On top of the above, the DS architecture does not allow as many ways to change/shape the sound

You can look at the Sony architecture in this way (just theorizing).
- REGION CODE: Base level settings of a multitude of areas available in the S-Master architecture
- LANGUAGE: An intermediate level of settings that moderate/add/change the Base level settings
- DSP/EQ: User level settings that allow further moderation of the Base and Intermediate settings
- SYSTEM/USER: each Equipment/Configuration/User Preferences have their own distinct requirements/sound.

You can look at what is done in the photography world as an analogy. You can use "presets" which simplify the complex tools available to shape the final output, and which most people would not be able to use. The number of areas that can be modified is mind boggling, and the combinations are almost infinite. Thus "presets" are provided, which are good enough that even the PRO user will use, a lot of the time. And which makes a complex environment more manageable.

I will postulate that the Sony DAP architecture is simpler, while at the same time having a much greater/more sophisticated level of control than other DAPs. (As a result of it's hardware/architecture?)

- House sound? I think this is the end result of the Sony engineers choices in all the myriad areas of hardware and software, and the way their personal values and interests have shaped the overall sound. The result is a Synergy, or a Gestalt, which is "Sony". It is a Gestalt of the engineering DNA, and NOT because of using a certain chip, or using certain DSP settings. That would be too simple a solution, and I would guess it is impossible to do.

So I postulate that the chameleon nature of the Sony is due to it's simplicity, which also allows for it's complexity. The base "Sony" sound is what it's architects have provided in their released product, which also allows for subsequent FWs, and user level changes (intended or unintended) to modify and shape the sound.

Which, when you think about it, is a good thing. How could any static configuration satisfy ALL users? And would not the users requirements change over time, and when making changes to their system? i.e. I am using an IEM (single DD) which sounds better with a "hotter" drive, while another already hot IEM would be over driven on the same setting.

The Sony allows for this. The engineers have given the users a base level sound, shaped by their understanding of what "good sound" is. Then the user is able to further shift, and shape the sound to their own preferences in music, and system synergy, and what is important to them/what they are sensitive to/what they listen to.

So the critical question is whether this is a good thing or not. My opinion is that yes, it is good thing.

And regardless, this is Sony. Like it, buy it. Don't like it, buy something else that you like better.
Even back in the ZX2 days almost a decade ago, @Whitigir had discovered that disabling sound adjustment app would change the sound signature of the Walkman. I think it goes to show that the Walkman’s sound quality is not just from its hardware design but also firmware level sound processing(does direct source even really mean it’s truly direct source mode?)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-zx2.742609/page-553#post-12001118
 
Mar 10, 2024 at 2:11 PM Post #14,734 of 15,987
Even back in the ZX2 days almost a decade ago, @Whitigir had discovered that disabling sound adjustment app would change the sound signature of the Walkman. I think it goes to show that the Walkman’s sound quality is not just from its hardware design but also firmware level sound processing(does direct source even really mean it’s truly direct source mode?)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-zx2.742609/page-553#post-12001118
When you turn EQ on, with everything set to "0" the EQ circuitry is activated, even when the EQ settings are 0, so the active circuit elements have changed.
So the same for Direct On, vs Off, etc. Every change to the configuration/settings results in changes in the SW and Electronics. This is what I think is responsible for sound differences.

To think of change to a setting as "pure", and not take into consideration all the other changes that the setting change will trigger, is due to our lack of knowledge in these areas. And that as users, technology has become too complex for the average person to comprehend. So we view things as black boxes, believing that we do not need to look inside and see the gears, just understand, and use, the "action" of the black box. i.e. Does the average person think of what is happening inside a hand held calculator when they are using it?

One explanation for sound changes when FW/Settings are changed, is that Sony has done some hidden DSP settings. I believe that is not the case, and it is an unintended result of changes to a complex system.

We tend to view things as a black box, without thinking of what is happening in the background details of exactly how a setting affects the system.
The "black box" viewpoint lacks any detailed understanding of what is happening in a system/circuit, and bears a large responsibility for why there are major disagreements in a lot of areas. Another factor is that we lack data, and real knowledge in many areas.

It is a similar viewpoint that results in the conclusion that an SD card cannot affect sound. It's a back box for storing bits. Therefore all black boxes are the same, because the bits are the same for all the boxes.

Or the material/mix of a short piece of wire, or the braid configuration of an IEM cable.
Does making a wire using OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) process, where the wire is drawn through the dies at slower speeds and lower temperatures make a difference?

Or the material that a 4.4mm jack is made from. Or the solder that is used. Or that Deoxit would make any important difference... etc. etc

Different S/W paths and logic activated, different circuit elements energized or de-energized, more/less drain on the power, higher/lower frequency of power drain, and on and on. All from toggling the state of a setting from on, to off. Or vice versa.

That the changes to the system could affect sound? A better question is why it would not.

And there are a myriad of settings, and complex interactions from the many different combinations that result from the changes in the settings.

There are really a lot of things that we do not understand.

In a way, we are not much different from our ancestors who saw lightning from the sky, and understood that the Gods were angry, and needed us to make sacrifices to appease them.....

And if it works, then continue to make the appropriate sacrifices. The Gods can be vindictive.
 
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Mar 10, 2024 at 11:54 PM Post #14,735 of 15,987
@ttt123
I finally found my previous post where I discovered the clue that Sony does in fact alter sound algorithms to suit different country or regions.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-m2-wm1a-m2.962054/post-16892910
`DSEE HX'' is installed in Sony's products of various genres, but do they all use the same technology?

s8_img02.jpg


Chinen: The underlying technology is the same. However, we perform detailed tuning depending on the characteristics of the product. Additionally, products equipped with DSEE HX are used not only in Japan but also in many countries and regions overseas. If you live in a different place, the genres of music you often listen to and the tastes of the people living there will change. For this reason, we finely tune the DSEE HX algorithm depending on the country or region.

The number of high-resolution sound sources is increasing rapidly, and you will be able to find your favorite songs from many genres such as jazz, classical, and pop. However, songs that you remember listening to in the past may not be able to be converted to high resolution. This is often due to the limitations of the recording equipment at the time, and unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. In such cases, I would like you to use ``DSEE HX'' to enjoy your favorite songs more deeply than on CD. DSEE HX is also recommended as a gateway to experiencing high resolution. Try applying "DSEE HX" to your CD or compressed sound source and compare. I'm sure you'll be able to get a glimpse of the appeal of high-resolution.
https://www.sony.jp/msc/enjoy/products/feature/20140501/
 
Mar 11, 2024 at 12:04 AM Post #14,736 of 15,987
@ttt123
I finally found my previous post where I discovered the clue that Sony does in fact alter sound algorithms to suit different country or regions.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-m2-wm1a-m2.962054/post-16892910

https://www.sony.jp/msc/enjoy/products/feature/20140501/
That is nothing new. Maybe we were discussing different things from the beginning but I always thought the discussion was about the sound changes in direct Mode and not even DSP is enabled. At least for me
 
Mar 11, 2024 at 3:31 AM Post #14,738 of 15,987
@ttt123
I finally found my previous post where I discovered the clue that Sony does in fact alter sound algorithms to suit different country or regions.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-m2-wm1a-m2.962054/post-16892910

https://www.sony.jp/msc/enjoy/products/feature/20140501/
Agree, that there is DSEE HX tuning is based on country/region.
tune the DSEE HX algorithm depending on the country or region.
This is altering/tailoring DSEE, and in this function, there are no other settings, so what I said in my post is a minor component.
For EQ turned on/off with all settings at 0, then it is relevant.

Also, different FW may have country/region alterations to multiple DSP functions. As people have observed that there are differences even when all DSP/EQ functions are off, these changes are applied at a lower level, in addition to DSP/EQ.

Given the above, the changes I speculate about, from turning on/off a function are typically less obvious, and unintended. And in addition, Sony can use a toolbox of intended changes to base functions, as well as tailoring DSP/EQ. So they have a lot of flexibility.
 
Mar 11, 2024 at 4:11 AM Post #14,739 of 15,987
Agree, that there is DSEE HX tuning is based on country/region.
tune the DSEE HX algorithm depending on the country or region.
This is altering/tailoring DSEE, and in this function, there are no other settings, so what I said in my post is a minor component.
For EQ turned on/off with all settings at 0, then it is relevant.

Also, different FW may have country/region alterations to multiple DSP functions. As people have observed that there are differences even when all DSP/EQ functions are off, these changes are applied at a lower level, in addition to DSP/EQ.

Given the above, the changes I speculate about, from turning on/off a function are typically less obvious, and unintended. And in addition, Sony can use a toolbox of intended changes to base functions, as well as tailoring DSP/EQ. So they have a lot of flexibility.
I think for the M2 Walkman, it seems that the alteration is not just with DSEE alone. Even if you are on Direct Source Mode, the sound will change once the language setting is changed.

There's an immediate noticeable difference in how Simplified Chinese sounds in Direct Source mode in comparison to many other languages like Japanese. English or Portuguese for example. It has softer dynamics(especially with bass) and less spatial feel as compared to the rest. Although the dynamics is reduced, I would feel that the Simplified Chinese has it's own kind of clarity to the sound, maybe because the bass is no longer the dominating sound spectrum, it allows for the vocals to become unmasked and become more clearer. Although I would think Japanese is the better sounding profile overall.
 
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Mar 11, 2024 at 4:45 AM Post #14,740 of 15,987
I think for the M2 Walkman, it seems that the alteration is not just with DSEE alone. Even if you are on Direct Source Mode, the sound will change once the language setting is changed.

There's an immediate noticeable difference in how Simplified Chinese sounds in Direct Source mode in comparison to many other languages like Japanese. English or Portuguese for example. It has softer dynamics(especially with bass) and less spatial feel as compared to the rest. Although the dynamics is reduced, I would feel that the Simplified Chinese has it's own kind of clarity to the sound, maybe because the bass is no longer the dominating sound spectrum, it allows for the vocals to become unmasked and become more clearer. Although I would think Japanese is the better sounding profile overall.
Yes. With Direct Source, changing the language will change the sound. So far Japanese is the one I prefer overall.
 
Mar 11, 2024 at 4:51 AM Post #14,741 of 15,987
Some good part of my jazz collection and likings seems to perform way better ( general timbrical attitude of the instruments in the ensambles ) with PL Portuguese ...still good bass texture and sub rumbles but more correct in their lively nature, and airier better then JL Japanese which comes out a bit too veiled and deep/dark....
On the topic of Jazz, I think this is absolutely beautiful singing, even though I don't understand a single word of French, it is just so delightful to listen:
 
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