Sony Minidisc vs. IPod or other player

[Head_case]

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Originally Posted by Joe Average /img/forum/go_quote.gif This has to be the record for thread necromancy I swear... been around years at hundreds if not thousands of forums and never found one resurrected after 5 freakin' years.

Hi Joe,

Thanks for posting - it's refreshing to hear others' experiences of minidisc too!

Is 5 years a long time lol? I listened to vinyl LPs when I was a kid (my parents actually *allowed* me to handle 12" platters and put them on the turntable without worrying about me breaching Health & Safety Regulations or calling on a Investigative Commission to research whether my short arms might get tractioned into the spinning turntable and suck me up and disappear into the vinyl vortex! Growing up, we always had vinyl and even later, going to university, I kind of accepted that I wouldn't have a LP player in a small dormitory, and so when I got out and escaped from the faculty it was only natural to buy one to recover the lost wonder years. I never really cotton'd on that vinyl had gone through a decimation and drought.

Similarly for mini-disc. I've been listening to my fantastic little Sharp MT888H (I also picked up a mint Sony MZ-N1 - complete - for about $75 as a back up but I don't use it. I don't think it was yours though...) since 2000, so suddenly landing on this forum, and being told that *I must believe that Mini-Disc is dead* just seems a bit errr.....strange

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Sony had the perfect portable with the MiniDisc, what, 16 years ago this year... and they pooched it from day 1. It's dead for one reason: Sony is full of moronic imbeciles that just can't seem to figure out when they have a truly kickass product and how to handle having such a product. It's sad really.

I have a Sony Discman which pioneered 'front loading' portable CD playing.
It scratched every single CD I put in this front loading method. After that, I fell out with Sony products. I wasn't quite the prolific letter writer to Sony's chairman though. Kind of switched over to Sharp mini-discs and been happy at home there. I did have one of the Sony top end dual head portable cassette players which I still use too. Now that is funnnnn!!!! You should hear the cassette tape squeal with the capstan drives!! It actually improves Tori Amos' vocals on 'Little Earthquakes'

You just can't do that on an iPod on the go

I'm sorry to hear you lost your MZ-N1 though. Can't believe how gutted you must've felt to lose such a fantastic little player. Equally, it's strange hearing how you've 'moved on', and these are memories. Lol. Maybe I really am a dinosaurus

 

[Head_case]

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Originally Posted by BIGHMW /img/forum/go_quote.gif As I and many other fellow MiniDisc Community Forum (now a part of SonyInsider.com) members, myself included always say, just because it may be "dead technology" does not make it inferior. I still use it to convert some of my vinyl to MD before then either playing it on either of my MD car decks, or uploading it to SS CP 4.2 (using my RH1) before spilling it out onto my NW-HD5. Do you actually think for one minute that I would go back to cassette tape, in which MiniDisc successfully replaced? MiniDisc was never intended to be the successor to CD, that is where Sony made a critical mistake, marketing it as that. The replacement to cassette tape, yes. CD, no.

Hey MW - thanks for the post and introduction to the minidisc forum! I never realised there was a dedicated resource for mini-disc users still going?!

I totally agree here: mini-disc technology is as 'dead' as CD technology or 'vinyl' turntable technology. There are no substantial technological gains pushed in either format fields along with minidisc: just refinements along the same formula and traditional principles.

The fake argument about 'technological progress' is one which I don't buy into: many people do, because the 'latest and greatest' invokes the GAS syndrome and the wish list. Music does not require the latest and greatest technology to love. In that respect, I'm format indifferent. I love vinyl LPs; CDs too, and minidiscs for travelling.

I think there are parallel arguments in photography too: digitisation of photography did not create a new generation of brilliant photographers. Their expenses and equipment costs just shot up, but they still have to work on their new medium, just like their analogue predecessors

The Hi-MD is new to me - I didn't even know this existed. Is the sound quality any better than the Sharp MT888H which I use? I don't care for storing more. If anything, I like to limit how many minidiscs I have. If say, I had 1000, something is very wrong. There is no way I could listen to so many. I'd rather keep about 100 minidiscs, and wipe and re-record; time and again.


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Now I've gotta go now and snag up the last of the blank MD's so I will be well stocked come time Sony pulls the plug on our beloved format (yeah, right!)

I have to say, Amazon.co.uk: Low Prices in Electronics, Books, Sports Equipment & more really really annoys me in this respect. Well, they annoy me in most other respects too, mostly for being a digital convenience store which is sooo tempting to order from, and kill off the concrete music stores on the high street. Lately they have been advertising new minidiscs for £0.01 per disc. The postage per disc....is £5.00 each.
Terrible, huh?!

Thanks for gracing us with your presence. Vive la Mini Disque!

 

[pata2001]

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Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif mini-disc technology is as 'dead' as CD technology or 'vinyl' turntable technology. There are no substantial technological gains pushed in either format fields along with minidisc: just refinements along the same formula and traditional principles.

Huh? I can go to a random electronic store and buy a CD player, or even a turntable. Not the case with MD.

And no, I'm not the one that decides if the format is dead or not (I can say I probably have more MD/HiMD units than you). The market decides that, and the fact that you don't see MD devices nor blanks being sold readily in stores shows you that it's pretty much dead. Conformity? Sounds like you're the one being stuck with Sony's marketing of the past. Using MD is fine (I already stated I'm still using it), but bashing other formats/devices shows that you're merely a fanboy.

 

[sxr71]

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Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Huh? I can go to a random electronic store and buy a CD player, or even a turntable. Not the case with MD. And no, I'm not the one that decides if the format is dead or not (I can say I probably have more MD/HiMD units than you). The market decides that, and the fact that you don't see MD devices nor blanks being sold readily in stores shows you that it's pretty much dead. Conformity? Sounds like you're the one being stuck with Sony's marketing of the past. Using MD is fine (I already stated I'm still using it), but bashing other formats/devices shows that you're merely a fanboy.

I think you need to brush up on your reading comprehension a little. I didn't read anything where he bashed any other format. For that matter even SACD is dead. I have see no allure to MD myself, I think today's flash based players could be better. It's just that MD players as well as PCDP's come from an era where at least on high end models sound quality was given more consideration than it typically is today.

 

[BIGHMW]

I don't necessarily have any grudges against those who use non-Sony PMP's, it's just that some of them are following the mainstream when it comes to them having to own what the majority of Americans do, as opposed to going with either their gut instinct and/or heart as opposed to what happens to be the "status quo du jour".

That I think is why the mainstream chose the somewhat-inferior VHS video format over Beta, which BTW is still being used by pros in the entertainment industry. It seems like another Sony product of genius, the MiniDisc and Hi-MD and their ATRAC/3/3+ codec were turned down in favor of MP3 because of it being available on the majority of DAP's.

Don't think of it as some sort of witch hunt against Sony, it happens to be due to a lack of both education on the competing formats in question, but also (and I will be the first to admit it) Sony's own Draconian tactics to restrict its formats capabilities, as well as their being overprotective of its artists throughout the Sony Music and Video industries.

That is what eventually killed MiniDisc, Hi-MD and the ATRAC family of codecs.

Yes but still there are tons of us who still use the formats as well as support them as well, I own 4 car decks (2 MDX-C5970 [for my 1963 VW Bus] and 2 Mobile ES MDX-C8900 units [for my 1999 New Beetle]), 2 MDX-65 6-MD changers (one for each car) as well as a pro deck (MDS-E10), home decks (plenty) and oh yes, more than my fair share of MD and Hi-MD Walkmen.

I just earlier this morning picked up 4 20-packs of Sony Premium Gold Series blank MD's, this after what once were 8 20-packs became only 4 available virtually overnight. This is the 11th Hour for MD, and I call out to all of my fellow MD/Hi-MD users here on both the Head-Fi and Sony Insider and Audio T-Board forums to go on an all-out spending spree on everything and anything that is MiniDisc and Hi-MD (your best chances on acquiring both blank media and players/decks/recorders are both on eBay and on Pause Play Stop - Buy Electronics and Accessories of all kinds! as everyone else is pretty much sold out.).

This also applies to both remote-friendly cans/IEM's/earphones and also to MD/Hi-MD-compatible inline remote controls as well.

Although I now use an NW-HD5 as my PMP of choice, I continue to use MD's and also my MDS-E10 to record my MD's and my one of three MZ-RH1's to upload them onto SonicStage CP 4.2 before spilling them out onto the HD5. As mentioned earlier, I continue to use my array of players and decks for home, studio and car use.

 

[shigzeo]

It is sure that Sony's marketing killed the MD, but they had to. In Europe and Japan, it was so popular and people who owned MD didn't really buy CD - you just borrowed, and Sony, a big CD publisher, would not let that happen. But they also pushed the view that MD was better; it came out in a lot of official marketing literature. Better than CD, better than DAT - from 1995, their tactic went to unrealistic claims - a trend which continued well into the last HiMD unit.

I've moved on and the only thing I miss is the ability to record and edit to a certain degree in the player. I don't miss fouled recordings because of cd jumps, the tiny s/n ratio of most portable players, or the incredible cost of storage.

It was a beautiful world of finesse in a time which lacked it, but it was dead long before HiMD came on the scene, and it is too bad. I feel better about home systems which could be purchased with real high end componentry, but the portable market was all based on hype and lies which were based on marketing myths rather than real performance. Placebo took it far further.

 

[BIGHMW]

True how Sony botched it (the marketing) from the get-go, especially when they tried to claim it was superior to both CD and DAT, in which it was not. Superior to cassette tape, yes. I mentioned that earlier in this thread.

Mainly, MD and Hi-MD were never intended to be the best formats of all time, but rather as the unheralded successor to cassette tape, and simply that's it. I got my first ever MD Walkman back in 1998, an MZ-R50, then months later I picked up an MZ-E40 as my first player-only unit. It was so great that both my best friend/mentor in the entertainment business, Len Enders of Label Cove Entertainment, who was first to get MD and the wonderful tools the recorders and players are/were, and I were the first two in mostly-rural, technologically-naive Jefferson County to own such units, in a time when many others were still using cassette tapes, cassette Walkmen, and tape decks without having but a clue on what we even owned back then.

I also went on monthly trips to the now-defunct Good Guys and also Best Buy and the also-now-defunct Circuit City 40 miles away in Silverdale back then to pick up blank MDs as well as the needed cords and accessories to record from not only my CDs, but also my lineup of cassettes and my vinyl collection as well.

About a year later, July 1999 to be exact, I acquired my 1999 New Beetle GLS 2.0 and was orchestrating the later change from its factory cassette deck and CD changer to an all-MiniDisc system. It still is today my go-to format for both direct-dub and live recording and playback purposes other than the personal portable variety.

True my arsenal of MD/Hi-MD/HDD players and recorders has evolved over the years, but oh how some things still remain the same.

 

[pata2001]

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Originally Posted by sxr71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you need to brush up on your reading comprehension a little.

Same to you too.

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mp3 was never about quality music; more about digital convenience

(Really? Point to Lame MP3 reaching transparency in various ABX tests and still being improved)
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The overinflated confidence in MP3 and digital format however is sheer arrogance

(huh?)
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Mini-discs don't fail or crash anything like the current generation of iShuffles and iPods and Windows 7 computers

(I don't even see any correlation in this, except for pointless bashing).

Oh well, might as well stop feeding the troll. I'm still using MD for recording and still think MD/HiMD is a great consumer recording device, yet I feel truly ashamed by these trolls/MD fanboys pretending they're superior just because they're using something nobody else is using. I think I have a better description: elitist trolls.

 

[shigzeo]

Funny, my first unit was the 1999 budget model of the Rz-50, the R37, in nothing less than purple colour! Beautiful, controls on the side, not top; it looked like a throwback to the first CD players, and if 1990's could be retro, it was. It remains to this day my favourite portable of all time, but I sold it in a lust to upgrade. Went through Kenwood, Aiwa, Panasonic, Sharp and Sony units including a desktop unit, but used a professional one at work sometimes.

I remain no less impressed and wowed by the format now than I was then, but the audio performance was never as good as it is still made out to be. If anything, it was the most tailored of sounds: fuller than the original in all my players. Sounds good? Yeah, but not as much like the original as other formats.

 

[Zakalwe]

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Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quote: Originally Posted by sxr71 Mini-discs don't fail or crash anything like the current generation of iShuffles and iPods and Windows 7 computers (I don't even see any correlation in this, except for pointless bashing).

True, and to add: my Sony MZ-R900 eventually developed a broken read/write-head and wasted several MDs before I realized it was the fault of the machine. As far as I know this was fairly common, the result of having a tiny mechanism with lots of fragile moving parts. You could often read about people suffering this on MD forums, in addition to the dreaded (but sometimes recoverable) TOC error. So to sxr71: if your MDs never failed, good for you and the best of luck for your future MD usage, but in general MDs were not quite as perfectly reliable as you depict them (though they were pretty good).

I do miss some things about MD recorders: the build quality, the inline-remotes, and real buttons everywhere. Battery runtime was excellent (at least before HI-MD), the batteries were replaceable, and often you also had an attachable AA battery case to extend the runtime even further. And the stuff looked great compared to the currently ubiquitous rounded blandness that Apple seems to have made popular, but that's quite subjective, I suppose.
I certainly don't miss the low storage capacities of MD compared to current systems, and spending hours titling the tracks with that jog wheel.

 

[Head_case]

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Originally Posted by sxr71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif .....I didn't read anything where he bashed any other format. For that matter even SACD is dead. I have see no allure to MD myself, I think today's flash based players could be better. It's just that MD players as well as PCDP's come from an era where at least on high end models sound quality was given more consideration than it typically is today.

Hey there....spot on...!

Been some time since I last contributed to this thread.....since then, I added a Sony MZ RH1 to my portable travel arsenal!

Well I bought an iPod which cost about £30 cheaper for the girlfriend who likes small travel items. So far, I'm still trying to understand the Sony RH1 upload/download sequence. It looks way more advanced than my optical cable method I've been using which is very slow~!

Yes - you're quite spot on again about the era of high end models and emphasis on sound quality. The amps and the headphone connections of these little players are very sophisticated.

A question though: the manual says that a 1GB HiMD disc can record about 1hour and 28 minutes of Linear PCM music. What kind of phenomenal recording is that?! I've been used to SP recordings which are just fantastic from my Sharp MD MT888H recorders. I can't wait to get started even if I am a decade behind!