it's been many years since i sold the v7 which is the 900st. tried many headphones after. for music enjoyment i would never buy those again. even the ma900 gives you a modernized sound vs those. still the durability of sony driver has excellent record, good material used for the drivers. for studio use these sony ones are good. i have a z7 coming and if i like it maybe sell some other headphones and get the z1r.
Mine need to be recabled but I used to enjoy them a lot with any musical genre a few years ago. Believe it or not I thought they rocked with electronic music. The only thing is that their resolution is pretty much limited, which puts them in the mid-fi category. Still a great portable/studio headphone IMO.
I think it's even older than that actually. But my point is that the HD600 is also a 90's headphone and you will still see plenty of people mention it here. A well designed headphone doesn't get old. Then technically I guess you can do better with today's dynamic technology. But truly neutral headphones are not that common because people tend to prefer v-shaped signatures these days.
Mine need to be recabled but I used to enjoy them a lot with any musical genre a few years ago. Believe it or not I thought they rocked with electronic music. The only thing is that their resolution is pretty much limited, which puts them in the mid-fi category. Still a great portable/studio headphone IMO.
You sure the v7 is the same? The cd900st has really good resolution especially in the mids. Comparable to today's mid-high end cans in that area easily.
I think it has better mid res than er4. Very clean and good speed. It just has a very narrow presentation with a laid back sound signature so it can sound muddy if you're not used to it.
You sure the v7 is the same? The cd900st has really good resolution especially in the mids. Comparable to today's mid-high end cans in that area easily.
I think it has better mid res than er4. Very clean and good speed. It just has a very narrow presentation with a laid back sound signature so it can sound muddy if you're not used to it.
I think so. I know many people consider the CD900ST to be very detailed, I guess it's a matter of perception. To me it still sounds like an average dynamic driver. Not as sharp as a HD600 I would say, but I'm going by memory here.
I think so. I know many people consider the CD900ST to be very detailed, I guess it's a matter of perception. To me it still sounds like an average dynamic driver. Not as sharp as a HD600 I would say, but I'm going by memory here.
It's definitely a lot more resolving and cleaber in the mids than hd6x0, having compared side by side. hd600 can sound clearer tho because it's brighter.
It's definitely a lot more resolving and cleaber in the mids than hd6x0, having compared side by side. hd600 can sound clearer tho because it's brighter.
I think they have a similar frequency response, they don't sound artificially boosted on the treble, which is something I like about both. I would have to recable the Sony to make sure. But the open soundstage of the Sennheiser might help with the perceived detail. Maybe the V7 is more advanced too? (I have a CD900ST in case my first post was confusing)
Clearing things up - Starting with the V7 vs 900ST
V7 is NOT the same as 900ST although the V7 was a version of the original 900 (non-ST) with slight differences in the build but the driver was the same and tuning was similar to the original CD900.
CD900ST debuted in the late 80's but was not mass-produced until the mid 90s. That I know for sure since I bought my first pair a couple of years after. (yes I'm dating myself)
CD900ST and similar series are all monitoring headphones = narrow soundstage. They are not designed for "enjoyment" listening (however in Japan because these are recommended to this day and required if you are getting into sound engineering, many have gotten into modding these to make it sound more like the expensive headphones designed for enjoyment. That said, you could mod it give a sense of wider soundstage but it's never going to be the same (as headphones designed with soundstage in mind).
Pads - I've tried so many different pads with these. Yes, it can make it more comfortable...but these cans are designed to have the driver damn close to the opening of your ear canal, as close as possible. If you are a professional, and you know the sound signature of theses headphones with stock pads, no other pads will be the same. Sorry. However, you could re-learn/re-train your ears to the sound with different pads so you know what you're hearing. I tried it for 6 months but then I went back to the original. I think for me, I got used to the original sound that maybe nostalgia and bias started playing a role. That said, Stock setup hurts my ears due to the shape of my ears so I really can't use it longer than 2 hours max before I really feel the pain.
The main purpose for discontinuing the original CD900 and replacing with CD900ST is to provide higher resolution which digital recordings provided. They changed the driver material in the process. This was also around the time when Compact Discs and Mini Discs were gaining popularity and recordings were advancing from 16bit to 24bit. On a side note, around this time - late 80's to early 90's Sony came out with multiple different headphones so I'm guessing that maybe they were experimenting with what would work the best? I'm just guessing out of my ass right now. When the 7506 came out for the international market, I jumped on that but the highs were so harsh and reminded me of certain Grado sound signatures and I did not like it (since I knew what the original 900's sounded like). When the 900ST went into mass production, all the other headphones discontinued. - hence my guess.
Comparing with MDR7510??? 7510 is of course the newer model. It is closer to the 900ST in respect to detail but imaging on the 900ST is superior in my opinion. However since they upgraded the driver on the 7510 to a 50mm, you will get better bass extension than the 900ST and that driver size and tuning also did tame the highs compared to the 7506. Although the sound was better, I got rid of mine immediately due to heavier weight compared to the 7506 and no origami foldy-foldy that the 7506 can do. I miss that. (Original CD900 also folded FYI). 7510 (and 7520) is also again, an international .. (or non-Japan) model so it's not available in Japan. The cups on the 7510 are ever so slightly deeper so better comfort and give you a sense of wider soundstage as well. but with most headphones, adding soundstage will decrease the detail (generally speaking) so I was not happy with the 7510. It's also been several years since I listened to the 7510 so all this is from what i remember. I will say that the "pro audio" MDR 7520 was based off Japan's MDR Z1000 which was more of a listening/enjoyment headphone so I never considered the 7510/7520 to be true monitoring headphones.
Some say Sony used the R&D that went into the MDR R10 and implemented it into the 900ST which is why it sounds so good. Some say because the 900ST is one of the only (maybe the only) monitoring headphone made in Japan and the quality control is so much more strict there, is the reason for it's great sound. Either way, these headphones have become legen.....wait for it... dary!
I think I've touched all bases since my last post on here. I guess I'll conclude by saying if you are looking for a monitoring headphone and you want to try what the Japanese have been using for several decades, to this date, the 900ST still performs really well and is very durable.. but only if you want to spend that money. There are better sounding headphones for cheaper just because technology had advanced. If you are looking for more musical enjoyment, look elsewhere. The CD900ST's are not the headphones you're looking for.
Clearing things up - Starting with the V7 vs 900ST
V7 is NOT the same as 900ST although the V7 was a version of the original 900 (non-ST) with slight differences in the build but the driver was the same and tuning was similar to the original CD900.
CD900ST debuted in the late 80's but was not mass-produced until the mid 90s. That I know for sure since I bought my first pair a couple of years after. (yes I'm dating myself)
CD900ST and similar series are all monitoring headphones = narrow soundstage. They are not designed for "enjoyment" listening (however in Japan because these are recommended to this day and required if you are getting into sound engineering, many have gotten into modding these to make it sound more like the expensive headphones designed for enjoyment. That said, you could mod it give a sense of wider soundstage but it's never going to be the same (as headphones designed with soundstage in mind).
Pads - I've tried so many different pads with these. Yes, it can make it more comfortable...but these cans are designed to have the driver damn close to the opening of your ear canal, as close as possible. If you are a professional, and you know the sound signature of theses headphones with stock pads, no other pads will be the same. Sorry. However, you could re-learn/re-train your ears to the sound with different pads so you know what you're hearing. I tried it for 6 months but then I went back to the original. I think for me, I got used to the original sound that maybe nostalgia and bias started playing a role. That said, Stock setup hurts my ears due to the shape of my ears so I really can't use it longer than 2 hours max before I really feel the pain.
The main purpose for discontinuing the original CD900 and replacing with CD900ST is to provide higher resolution which digital recordings provided. They changed the driver material in the process. This was also around the time when Compact Discs and Mini Discs were gaining popularity and recordings were advancing from 16bit to 24bit. On a side note, around this time - late 80's to early 90's Sony came out with multiple different headphones so I'm guessing that maybe they were experimenting with what would work the best? I'm just guessing out of my ass right now. When the 7506 came out for the international market, I jumped on that but the highs were so harsh and reminded me of certain Grado sound signatures and I did not like it (since I knew what the original 900's sounded like). When the 900ST went into mass production, all the other headphones discontinued. - hence my guess.
Comparing with MDR7510??? 7510 is of course the newer model. It is closer to the 900ST in respect to detail but imaging on the 900ST is superior in my opinion. However since they upgraded the driver on the 7510 to a 50mm, you will get better bass extension than the 900ST and that driver size and tuning also did tame the highs compared to the 7506. Although the sound was better, I got rid of mine immediately due to heavier weight compared to the 7506 and no origami foldy-foldy that the 7506 can do. I miss that. (Original CD900 also folded FYI). 7510 (and 7520) is also again, an international .. (or non-Japan) model so it's not available in Japan. The cups on the 7510 are ever so slightly deeper so better comfort and give you a sense of wider soundstage as well. but with most headphones, adding soundstage will decrease the detail (generally speaking) so I was not happy with the 7510. It's also been several years since I listened to the 7510 so all this is from what i remember. I will say that the "pro audio" MDR 7520 was based off Japan's MDR Z1000 which was more of a listening/enjoyment headphone so I never considered the 7510/7520 to be true monitoring headphones.
Some say Sony used the R&D that went into the MDR R10 and implemented it into the 900ST which is why it sounds so good. Some say because the 900ST is one of the only (maybe the only) monitoring headphone made in Japan and the quality control is so much more strict there, is the reason for it's great sound. Either way, these headphones have become legen.....wait for it... dary!
I think I've touched all bases since my last post on here. I guess I'll conclude by saying if you are looking for a monitoring headphone and you want to try what the Japanese have been using for several decades, to this date, the 900ST still performs really well and is very durable.. but only if you want to spend that money. There are better sounding headphones for cheaper just because technology had advanced. If you are looking for more musical enjoyment, look elsewhere. The CD900ST's are not the headphones you're looking for.
Agree on all points here. Out of all the pads I've tried on CD900st so far, the best ones have been the Yaxi stPad (not stpad2 or the velour version). They greatly improve the comfort and turn it into a proper over-ear headphone while not changing the tonality much at all. They are just a bit more laid back in *character* compared to the stock pads, but the sound signature is still extremely close to stock and the overall sound difference is relatively negligible while being a huge comfort and pad material improvement. I also have Brainwavz microsuede monitor pads coming from a friend, and they look very promising on measurements because they appear to fill in the 2k dip substantially without messing with anything else tonally, and he says they also improve soundstage compared to stpad1.
They're one of the best closed headphones I've heard, period. Not the best technically but just well balanced with a very nice midrange. Not something you find on your typical portable headphone.
it's been many years since i sold the v7 which is the 900st. tried many headphones after. for music enjoyment i would never buy those again. even the ma900 gives you a modernized sound vs those. still the durability of sony driver has excellent record, good material used for the drivers. for studio use these sony ones are good. i have a z7 coming and if i like it maybe sell some other headphones and get the z1r.
I had the MDR-7506 and purchased them laughably in 1991 when they were introduced. I probably have not heard any of this Sony range since then....though they were my music making and mixing monitors for years. I kind of look at them as very neutral and clear reference headphones. And while for the money even today I’m sure they offer value.
Though in contrast the MDR-Z7 offers a departure from that era. Strangely I don’t look at the MDR-Z7 as something I could even record or mix on. Though I don’t use a home studio anymore. If you listen to the modem Sony sound designers today............they are trying to bring in the room response. The room response is a actual lower midrange bump which occurs from the venue the music is being played at. In a 2 channel home speaker rig, the sound reverberates inside the speaker cabinet then reflects off the walls adding mid-bass as a measurable artifact. That’s what Sony is adding to the house sound now-days. The MDR-Z1R has even more of it and if you close your eyes you’ll actually be transported to a little Japan jazz club hearing room response as an add of color.
They're one of the best closed headphones I've heard, period. Not the best technically but just well balanced with a very nice midrange. Not something you find on your typical portable headphone.
...........they are trying to bring in the room response. The room response is a actual lower midrange bump which occurs from the venue the music is being played at. In a 2 channel home speaker rig, the sound reverberates inside the speaker cabinet then reflects off the walls adding mid-bass as a measurable artifact.
Interesting observation. I haven't really come to the same or similar conclusion with current line up of sony except when I heard the SS-NA series speakers. But those were also paired with a Sony amp. I don't have any sony amps for my setup right now. Wondering if the sony amp is doing what you are describing. The last sony amp I had was the TA-ZH1ES which I kinda stupidly sold because my friend ...who likes to watch zeos... watched his review and offered to buy it from me, full retail price for it. I bought an open box for about $500 cheaper a couple of months after it came out so I figured yay, I can make money and buy more stuff. I ended up buying my Z1R a few month after that so I've never paired the two together.
Interesting observation. I haven't really come to the same or similar conclusion with current line up of sony except when I heard the SS-NA series speakers. But those were also paired with a Sony amp. I don't have any sony amps for my setup right now. Wondering if the sony amp is doing what you are describing. The last sony amp I had was the TA-ZH1ES which I kinda stupidly sold because my friend ...who likes to watch zeos... watched his review and offered to buy it from me, full retail price for it. I bought an open box for about $500 cheaper a couple of months after it came out so I figured yay, I can make money and buy more stuff. I ended up buying my Z1R a few month after that so I've never paired the two together.
Well, the whole thing is not trying to find the Sony unicorn? Maybe the unicorn system does exist out there? I’m not going to be the one to promote the TA and MDR-Z1R as anything close to that fable of “end-game”. Though for some it is...maybe? My ideas come from thinking the MDR-R10 I probably could use to mix and record music on? I typically clump the old Sony gear with all the old Sony gear?
But this new Sony sound is far from a monitor sound? If someone can get into it...it would be after an adaptation period. We all went through that period with our MDR-Z1R headphones when they were new. It’s about a three day run, where you don’t judge but simply listen and multitask to slowly get your head to start forgetting about the room response. This maybe would be like being able to get into the musicality at a club but concentrating on the music and forgetting the echo and bass hump?
And by the way. These are not observed personal ideas? This is what the main sound designer for the MDR-Z1R has said. Inner Fidelity has a great write-up on room response as an issue and artifact which they measured. I’ll find the video and post it here.
Interesting observation. I haven't really come to the same or similar conclusion with current line up of sony except when I heard the SS-NA series speakers. But those were also paired with a Sony amp. I don't have any sony amps for my setup right now. Wondering if the sony amp is doing what you are describing. The last sony amp I had was the TA-ZH1ES which I kinda stupidly sold because my friend ...who likes to watch zeos... watched his review and offered to buy it from me, full retail price for it. I bought an open box for about $500 cheaper a couple of months after it came out so I figured yay, I can make money and buy more stuff. I ended up buying my Z1R a few month after that so I've never paired the two together.
But yes, if you do drink the Sony Kool-aid it’s the system and in ways I have tried to mix and match gear to only find the Kimber Cable and TA with the MDR-Z1R became more free of issues. But there is a ton of placebo there. Also big-time self approval due to purchase pressures. After you buy your going to justify stuff to yourself just like (a person does to) everyone else on Head-Fi.
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