[slindeman]

I spent 3 years with the MDR-A30Gs and now I wouldn't touch another Sony vertical headphone with a 10 foot pole. They sound horrible even with a nice amp and source. I still have them and use them to show others how much better my other headphones sound. The A30Gs are handily beaten (and that's an understatement!) by KSC-35s, KSC-50s and Labtec Elite-840s, all of which I paid $5 less for. In fact, the only headphones I've had (besides freebies) that sound worse than the MDR-A30Gs are the V200s.

I've tried other vertical headphones at the local wall o' phones, including other Sony ones, and they sounded very similar to the A30G. These kind of headphones, in my experience, are very far from neutral, they usually have a huge peak in the midrange area, no bass extension, no soundstage, and poor instrument separation. Call me skeptical...

 

[chych]

So slindeman, how were the A44L's?

 

[Duncan]

The Quality is kinda poor (because i've got a naff digital camera, and the lighting was blatantly wrong)... but, here - for the disbelievers amongst us, is proof that i have these three pairs of 'phones

Sony MDR-A21, 22 & 44L (Side View)

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1 ....Fine, miss out on a great headphone then. They smoke the Sennheiser HD-600s and Grado RS-1s for detail and transparency too. And wasn't that what you wanted when you were considering the RS-1? .... ....These things, quite simply, are open air Etymotics! When driven from a nice big rig, the sound fills in tremendously, the soundstage blooms, the highs become very smooth with no screechiness at all. The bass is very similar to Etymotic style bass...it's bass you can totally hear, but can't quite feel. But where they are most like the Etymotics is in inner detail and transparency...when driven out of the Cmoy, you can just hear everything. Background singers and instrument decays are just totally laid out. Each word a singer sings is pronounced with frightening accuracy and sharpness, particularly noticeable when I play Asian music through them.... ....Quite simply, I don't think any of my other headphones have ever showed me this degree of high quality sharpness to everything, other than the Stax 3030 system that I tried before...it's like you suddenly gain a heightened sense to the intricacies of the music. Even the Etymotics, while being incredibly detailed, had the tendency to soften words up. This is not sibilance that I am describing either, it's more like an absolute lack of warmth perhaps. It's very clean and cold sounding.... ....The A44s strangely can't resolve speedy instrument seperation very well, meaning when I listen to a fast violin piece, the back and forward strokes sound smeared.... ....The closest thing I have to compare the A44s to are the Grado 325s, and the A44s simply blow away the 325s in the area of pure detail and being able to hear the little background details. The Grados win out in that they give you a bigger, fuller sound, with more bass. But the A44s simply smoke them in the amount of music they can deliver to your ears. Almost a case of electrostats vs. dynamics...almost....

I won't comment on the 44L's specifically, as I don't think I've ever heard them before. But I do know that Vertigo gets very excited about a lot of the stuff he listens to. Smokes the HD-600's and Grado RS-1's for detail, eh? Again, since I haven't heard the 44L's I won't say much about this. I do believe that Vert's convinced for now. I would be very surprised if many who do hear these end up agreeing with this as the enthusiasm dies down -- very surprised.

 

[Duncan]

lol Jude, you mean like me on Headwize on the day i bought the Koss Plugs??

Seriously though, granted the A44s won't ultimately set the world on fire, but i think the point that Vert is trying to make is that these have a smoother frequency curve(???) than what other 'phones have, they are not as peaky

I don't think you'd see too many people swapping there Grado RS-1s for these, but... they do seem a little "calmer" than the lower end Grados

 

[Duncan]

Oooh, thats Cheeky Jude, editing your post after me posting mine

Originally posted by Jude


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vertigo-1
Fine, miss out on a great headphone then. They smoke the Sennheiser HD-600s and Grado RS-1s for detail and transparency too. And wasn't that what you wanted when you were considering the RS-1?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, so, that pees on my fire a little, but... i can still see Verts point to a point

Its hard to describe without seeming to brag, but there is a kind of airyness, everything is there in front of you, nothing is mixed up like the norm is for cheap 'buds

I wouldn't go as far personally as to say that they walk all over my HD580s, or even my EX70s driven by my D777 BUT I can see that to other people these WOULD sound good

I personally like quite a heavy sound, which is probably why i'm still slightly dissatisfied with my HD580s... and, if you think about it the HD580s are everybodies favourites...

Also, one other point which never seems to be brought up, is that different continents, countries, even (for those in the US) states, have different listening requirements... we're all brought up differently, just look at me for that, i like the EX70s better than the E888s, whereas 150 miles up the motorway is Peddler with his ETYs, E888s and EX70s, and his views are completely different

If we all liked the same sound, there would be no need for EQ on ANY equipment (okay okay, the hi-end gear doesn't have it) and, everyone would all buy $1 'phones because they'd sound exactly as you'd expect... unfortunately, this isn't such an ideal world

If anyone does listen to the A44s, they might be disgusted at how they sound... BUT, give them 3 or 4 minutes, and then see what you think... not promising any miracles from here, BUT, you might be pleasantly surprised!!

 

[Vertigo-1]

I just directly compared my 325s to the A44s, keeping them both plugged into my Cmoy at the same time...and there definitely feels as if there's a veil over the the details of the 325s compared to the A44s. Especially with the pronunciation of words, the A44s are particularly very clear on the sharpness of each word. The highs are incredibly smooth when it comes to instruments, in fact cymbals still sound subdued and lack that sharp crack they should have. The sax sounds airy and flowy, and not shrill or pinched.

I also tried fiddling around with the insertion level, and I noticed the deeper I could get these into my ears, the greater the level of background detail and transparency I got, along with more and more bass. At the deepest and tighest level I could get them into my ears, they were without a doubt far surpassing the 325s in the amount of microdetails I could hear. Swapping over to the 325s seemed to give me a more laid back sound, with a fuller bass...but that pulled back sound lacks the microdetails I could hear with the A44s.

I remain impressed and delighted at what these $25 headphones are capable of doing. They will definitely become a part of my "different sound for the night" collection of 'phones that I find worth keeping.

 

[Neruda]

okay, so EVERYTHING is veiled compared to a $20 sony headphone. I don't buy it, man. What's next? Are you going to buy the V600 and talk about how it kills every other closed phone in existence? I'm sorry, but this simply is not possible. NO headphone could make something like the 325 sound veiled unless it had unbelievably bright treble. Are you saying that it reveals more inner detail than an electrostat? Are you aware of how absolutely crazy that sounds? But even better is how you say that they SMOKE, S-M-O-K-E what are recognised as some of the greatest headphones in existence in terms of detail and transparency. if this were at all true, someone would have found out by now and told people, and audiophiles would be using them worldwide. but that's not the case. Gee, I wonder why?

Personally, I'm no longer wondering about how great the 44L is...I'm wondering about how bad the R10 might be.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda Personally, I'm no longer wondering about how great the 44L is...I'm wondering about how bad the R10 might be.

OUCH! Low blow! Low blow!

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

I'm sorry, but this simply is not possible.

I find this statement pretty hilarious. So what, are we back to dictating that everything runs on a price based pecking order? How do you think Koss came to be so popular? For every person that says Kosses sound good here, you could find 10 people that say "this simply is not possible". What is so impossible about the A44s delivering something Grados can't because of their design?

Quote:

NO headphone could make something like the 325 sound veiled unless it had unbelievably bright treble.

Let's see, the other way a headphone could make the 325s sound veiled I believe is if they have a direct, closer coupling to the eardrums. Which the A44s do. And the A44s, driven out of the Cmoy from a high end Sony MD deck with quite costly interconnects, does NOT have a bright treble.

Quote:

Are you saying that it reveals more inner detail than an electrostat?

Please quote where I said that.

Quote:

Are you aware of how absolutely crazy that sounds? But even better is how you say that they SMOKE, S-M-O-K-E what are recognised as some of the greatest headphones in existence in terms of detail and transparency.

Once again, it's about the physical attributes of the headphone. They go into your ear canal. The Etymotics destroy all challengers for detail and transparency in the dynamic headphone world regardless of price for pretty much the same reason. So yes, even if I had never owned the A44s, from reading this part, I would certainly think twice about the potential its design has.

Quote:

if this were at all true, someone would have found out by now and told people, and audiophiles would be using them worldwide. but that's not the case. Gee, I wonder why?

This is why I bothered posting. Only in the past year has the idea of headphone amps been truly toted as being a necessity to true headphone listening. Headphone amps change everything about the way we look at headphones. What might have sounded totally horrific before, might sound the complete opposite when given a headphone amp. I would have continued believing the AKG-501s sounded utterly boring and lifeless if I had never heard it with my RKV. I would have continued believing in Headroom's description of the Beyerdynamic 831s being too bright if I had never heard them from an Total Airhead with crossfeed on. And I would have continued believing my A44s were nothing but screechy sounding crappy headphones if I had never tried them with my Cmoy.

I'm apparently not the only one that thinks the A44s have a much further potential to be reached when given a headphone amp. All I did was just post what I heard. The A44s cost mere beans to the majority of the people here, I leave it up to them if they wish to experiment with it as I did...I've certainly done some experimenting myself when something is cheap enough, such as seeing what the fuss about the MX-500s were when I was already very satisfied with my 888s, or checking out the KSC-50 and 55. I also offered the incentive of trying the A44s out, which was for their detail and transparency, which to my ears is apparently better than my 325's. That doesn't mean they're going to be replacing my entire fleet of headphones, but at less than $20, it's a headphone people can afford to buy and experiment with if they wish, without raising all hell about it. I post this not as an "officially recommended Headfi headphone", but rather as an experiment for others to take up and try. Sort of a joelongwood headphone if you will. It is no more than that.

If you are that offended by a $20 headphone beating a $300 one when you don't even own the equipment in question...well no comment.

Something either sounds better to me or it doesn't. If I gotta pay more for it, fine...if I pay less for it, even better.

 

[Flasken]

BAM!!! game over.

Vertigo-1 : 1
Neruda : 0




LOL

 

[Eagle_Driver]

I thought I was impressed with my A34L's the first time I heard them (and that was during my "dum-bass" phase of my life)... But now I realise that the bass produced from those little thingamajigs (at least from a portable CD or tape player) is practically all mid-bass and upper-bass, with little (if any) low bass extension...

Now let's make that score:

Vertigo-1: 1
Neruda: 0
Eagle_Driver: 0.5
Piece of Crap: 10

 

[Duncan]

okay... lets go for "its up to our own ears to decide"

Afterall, there would be no point in discussion forums if we all had the same sense of hearing

think logically... we don't all like the same food do we? what makes one thing taste nice to one person, but vile to the next... individuality!!

So, that'll be

Vertigo_1 - 1
Eagle_Driver - 0.5
Neruda - 0
Personal opinion of product 100!!

After all, would I be insane if i DID like the V600? NO!! I wouldn't, that'd purely be my own choice!!

(As a matter of sideline interest, the V600 isn't sold in the UK, just the 5 and 700... guess we're lucky

)

Thank you, and good night

 

[tracylynn]

how does the sony A34L compared to other cheapo headphone...senn mx500 or koss ksc50/35?

 

[slindeman]

My point is that unless the A44s are some miracle vertical headphone, what they give up to achieve the extra detail they provide makes them pretty much worthless for me to enjoy music. My hunch is that this is an extreme case of what we find with Grados. Grados really emphasize a certain frequency range (see the large peak at 5kHz-10kHz or so, check the headroom graphs to be sure) and many people find that pleasing. My experience with vertical headphones is that they take some small piece of the frequency spectrum and emphasize it very much. Because of this emphasis and the close coupling to the ear, the details are amazing in that limited frequency range. Certainly my A30Gs emphasize certain instruments, and in particular voices, which perhaps to some would be exciting, but to me sounds horribly inbalanced, and not at all like real music. Certainly its a case of "listen to what you like," as there are many tradeoffs in headphones. However I prefer neutrality, and any headphone that so obviously adds its signature to every single recording is far from neutral and will remain far from my ears. I'm not saying anything about the A44s, just explaining why I would be so skeptical of vertical headphones.

Also check out the reviews of the MDRA44L and MDRA34L (same heapdhones except for headband) and the MDRA30G at AudioReview. One guy in particular owned and reviewed both the A30G and the A34L, finding them both similar sounding. He described the MDRA30G almost exactly like I would, and so I am even more certain the A44L would not sound much different or better. He liked them both at first, then a couple of months later realized how bad they sounded. Another reviewer found a huge peak around 10kHZ, and another reviewer gave them a review similar to Vertigo's, saying that KSC-35's just didn't have the same detail in the upper midrange/ highs and thus were inferior to the A44Ls. He only went so far as to say they were as good as Grado SR-60s however.