[Vamp898]

Unfortunately it's not that simple...
My experience is that the M9 is the most power hungry of all my IEMs, and on a low quality source like my iPhone SE 2015 it sounds limp.

But the quality of the source is always a combination of DAC and amp section.
The Chord Mojo and Hugo 2 which I use are both DAC/Amp solutions, so I can only judge DAC and Amp combined.
The Mojo has 720mW into 8 Ohms (output impedance 0.075), the Hugo 2 has 1050mW (outpout impedance 0.025) so both have theoretically more than enough power.
Yet the M9 really comes alive when driven by the Hugo 2. It's the note definition, the energy and control of the whole frequency range but especially in the bass which is noticably better with the Hugo.

That should not keep you from using and enjoying the M9 with the BTR5 but IMO the M9 needs some really high-end sources to show what it's really capable of.

He was only asking about loudness^^ in terms of loudness, my Xperia 1 II is more than enough to blow my eardrum out. The sound is, of course, no where close to the WM1Z. The IER-M9 is extremely technical and reproduces what you put into it as accurate as possible. So you'll hear if the Amp isn't good instantly.

But in terms of pure volume, my Xperia is more than enough.

But they are much louder since i use the memory foam, i think the pressure buildup influenced the volume for me.

 

[surfgeorge]

I did not have any issues with the Sony tips (i use them on the IER-Z1R and XBA-Z5 without issues), the issue i had was mostly

1. Either they sounded good and isolated okayish
2. They isolated very good, but built up pressure and so destroyed the sound
3. They slowly started sliding out. Really very slowly because... well its silicone in the ear. They are, of course, not cemented there but everytime i pushed them a bit back in, the sound changed again because the pressure changed

With the Foams i can have everything now. I can insert them as deep as i want without any pressure, they sit very tight and almost don't move. And the tiny amount they do move, is no issue because when i push them back in, they don't build up pressure. I mean they do for like milliseconds. You can feal it but you can also feal the instant relief from the compensation.

The foams allow pressure compensation and this is the magic. That is everything they needed due to their closed design to be perfect. I was so close to drill a tiny hole into the faceplate somewhere just to allow them to do that. They Foam Tips have been my last restort.

Espeically with the silicone tips, i was often able to hear myself. I could not wear them while walking or eating. With the foams now, no longer an issue.

I have never liked the process of inserting foam tips and feel of using them, so I never tried them with the M9.
Did you try the Spiral Dot ++ tips? Would like to hear about your experience compared to the foam tips!
@CoryGillmore recommended the SD++ on the M9 thread, and I finally bought them. Like them a lot.

 

[Vamp898]

I have never liked the process of inserting foam tips and feel of using them, so I never tried them with the M9.
Did you try the Spiral Dot ++ tips? Would like to hear about your experience compared to the foam tips!
@CoryGillmore recommended the SD++ on the M9 thread, and I finally bought them. Like them a lot.

They are made of silicone so don't allow for pressure compensation too, so they are not an option to me.

I tried a lot of several tips from 5 brands including 2 types of spin-fit and tri-flange and they all had the exact same issue.

As soon as i insert them as deep as i need to, i press the air in my ear-canal.

The Best that have not been Memory foam, so far, have been the MS-size Hybrid Silicone from Sony as they have just the right size.

But they don't isolate well and then i have the bloat bass.

I didn't like Memory foam at fist too, but so far they solved all my issues. Its a bit of a hassle to insert them but the IER-M9 sound as close to perfection as possible now, so i just accept it and enjoy their sound.

I bought the gel-filled silicone from Canal Works recently

but they haven't arrived yet. Lets see how they turn out

 

[jbhatnagar00]

Unfortunately it's not that simple...
My experience is that the M9 is the most power hungry of all my IEMs, and on a low quality source like my iPhone SE 2015 it sounds limp.

But the quality of the source is always a combination of DAC and amp section.
The Chord Mojo and Hugo 2 which I use are both DAC/Amp solutions, so I can only judge DAC and Amp combined.
The Mojo has 720mW into 8 Ohms (output impedance 0.075), the Hugo 2 has 1050mW (outpout impedance 0.025) so both have theoretically more than enough power.
Yet the M9 really comes alive when driven by the Hugo 2. It's the note definition, the energy and control of the whole frequency range but especially in the bass which is noticably better with the Hugo.

That should not keep you from using and enjoying the M9 with the BTR5 but IMO the M9 needs some really high-end sources to show what it's really capable of.

Do you suspect the same would apply to the M7? This is making me reconsider buying the M9 because I don't have a great DAP or desktop dac/amp. I was thinking about the IEMagni though. Maybe M7 + IEMagni would be a good combo? It's not in my budget to buy the M9 plus a dac/amp or DAP so the M9 on its own may not be worth the money.

 

[jbhatnagar00]

If those three are your only experience, then you'll be surprised. It will be like you'll be able to hear bass for the first time ever.

I tested the Blessing 2 Dusk and it has one of the most thinnest, lifeless and boring bass that exists, and the Dusk is the Blessing 2 Version with the boosted bass.

About the distortion, that is complicated. I have not measured them and the distortion is not big enough to hear it. Maybe its there, maybe not, i don't care to be honest^^ but it doesn't bleed with memory foam.

It does with the silicone tips (i do _not_ recommend to use them) because they are closed (like really closed, no air vent, nothing, for best isolation) and so your ear canal and the choice of tips play an extremely big role. But because Memory Foam allow for pressure compensation, you won't have these issues using foam.

The people i met who also use the IER-M9 can't insert them fully because otherwise they get pressure issues and if you don't insert them completely, the bass gets boosted and starts to bleed.

So again, if you can't wear them properly due to air pressure issues, i highly recommend to use Memory Foam. They let through an tiny amount of air and so you can insert them properly and hear how they really sound and don't have the air pressure issues.

And the bass is very dry and extremely controlled. There is no bloat of bleed to me.

I have the moondrop foam mis-tips. Think those would be good?

 

[Vamp898]

I have the moondrop foam mis-tips. Think those would be good?

Sony uses 4,0mm Nozzles, so you sadly can't use them. But Memory Foam are cheap. I got the Xcessor FX4.0 and i payed like 8€ for 4 pairs.

 

[jbhatnagar00]

He was only asking about loudness^^ in terms of loudness, my Xperia 1 II is more than enough to blow my eardrum out. The sound is, of course, no where close to the WM1Z. The IER-M9 is extremely technical and reproduces what you put into it as accurate as possible. So you'll hear if the Amp isn't good instantly.

But in terms of pure volume, my Xperia is more than enough.

But they are much louder since i use the memory foam, i think the pressure buildup influenced the volume for me.

I wasn't only talking about loudness, but how performance changes based on the dac/amp being used.

 

[jbhatnagar00]

Sony uses 4,0mm Nozzles, so you sadly can't use them. But Memory Foam are cheap. I got the Xcessor FX4.0 and i payed like 8€ for 4 pairs.

Maybe I'll just go with the Softears RSV at this point then haha. I really wanted the M9 but the M9 + DAP is out of budget

 

[Vamp898]

Invest into headphones first, always. If you want the IER-M9, get the M9. Don't waste money by buying an IEM you don't want just to sell it (with big loss) later to re-buy what you actually wanted.

Rather get something very cheap like a used NW-A50 or the ZX300. They are both cheap new and even cheaper used and can drive the IER-M9, IER-Z1R, MDR-Z1R without issues. Of course the WM1 will sound better, yes, but its not like you can't use them with the ZX300.

ZX300 for example provides Sonys FTCAP capacitors, USB DAC, Bluetooth Receiver and so on. I own the ZX300 and it is good enough to be a loyal companion for several years.

If you don't have the budget for both, always get the headphone.

Statement from Kuwahara (the one who designed and lead the development for IER-M9 and IER-Z1R (beside others)):

Try it first with your normally preferred music player, even if it’s a smartphone. After that, if you have the budget, try a Walkman® that supports balanced connections (NW-ZX300, NW-WM1A, and NW-WM1Z) to enjoy the pure acoustics of a balanced connection. I would also recommend using the highest quality audio source available. High quality headphones are able to properly express differences in source quality, so I think it would be fun to listen and compare.

If you want the IER-M9, get the IER-M9 and use it from whatever you have.

 

[Vamp898]

Maybe I'll just go with the Softears RSV at this point then haha. I really wanted the M9 but the M9 + DAP is out of budget

The IER-M7 is better than the Softears RSV, thats for sure.

 

[jbhatnagar00]

The IER-M7 is better than the Softears RSV, thats for sure.

How much power does the ZX-300 balanced have? Does it play Apple Music? What would you go with, M7 + ZX-300 + and maybe spiral dots OR the M9?

 

[Vamp898]

How much power does the ZX-300 balanced have? Does it play Apple Music? What would you go with, M7 + ZX-300 + and maybe spiral dots OR the M9?

1. 200mW (at Volume 90/120 on low-gain its already almost painful loud. I can't remember that i used it above 90 with the IER-M9 ever. Maybe with very very quiet songs you need to go up to 100/120. I never used High-Gain, even with the MDR-Z1R. Its just too much power.
2. No. You would need to connect your smarpthone using Bluetooth Receiver Mode. But the ZX507 runs Apple Music (which is more expensive)
3. M9

 

[jbhatnagar00]

1. 200mW (at Volume 90/120 on low-gain its already almost painful loud. I can't remember that i used it above 90 with the IER-M9 ever. Maybe with very very quiet songs you need to go up to 100/120. I never used High-Gain, even with the MDR-Z1R. Its just too much power.
2. No. You would need to connect your smarpthone using Bluetooth Receiver Mode. But the ZX507 runs Apple Music (which is more expensive)
3. M9

Why did surfgeorge say he needs over 1000 mW of power for the M9? This has me confused.

 

[Vamp898]

Why did surfgeorge say he needs over 1000 mW of power for the M9? This has me confused

I think you misunderstood him. The Sony NW-WM1Z (3300€, Sonys best High-End Premium DAP) does have 250mW.

As said earlier, 100mW are enough to destroy the IER-M9. The drivers will just break apart. And you don't want to get even close to that because they will be around 140db and more before they break apart, so they are loud enough to almost kill you, let alone make you death

 

[jbhatnagar00]

I think you misunderstood him. The Sony NW-WM1Z (3300€, Sonys best High-End Premium DAP) does have 250mW.

As said earlier, 100mW are enough to destroy the IER-M9. The drivers will just break apart. And you don't want to get even close to that because they will be around 140db and more before they break apart, so they are loud enough to almost kill you, let alone make you death

On the ZX-300, how do you get music? Do you have to buy albums or is there a sony streaming service that has everything up to date?