[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckyleo /img/forum/go_quote.gif How can you say that if you haven't heard the PS-1000's??? Doesn't make sense to me. You lose some cred points there.

Sorry to clarify: I meant I preferred the RS1s to the GS1000s, not the PS1000s.

 

[Rakooon]

What can't acces page 7 ?!??!?

im a crazy ???

 

[mteorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakooon /img/forum/go_quote.gif What can't acces page 7 ?!??!? im a crazy ???

Nope, same here...

Edit: never mind, guess I'm on page 7 now.

I guess while I'm in this thread I might as well echo some sentiments shared by other posters.

1) I think OP has a valid question/comment, and I didn't think it was presented in an offensive way.
2) I own both the SR-80 and RS-1, and they do indeed sound similar. The RS-1 is indeed better (more bass, more separation around instruments), and whether it is "$500 better" than the SR-80 is entirely a question of how much one values $500 (of course, we are all aware that quality does not scale linearly). For me, it is worth it.

 

[scytheavatar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mteorman /img/forum/go_quote.gif whether it is "$500 better" than the SR-80 is entirely a question of how much one values $500.

$600 better, not $500 better.

And that argument is a bad one cause for the same price the AD2000 offers about the same thing, except better.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif $600 better, not $500 better. And that argument is a bad one cause for the same price the AD2000 offers about the same thing, except better.

Yeah... let's not say stupid things that depend solely on personal preference, ok?

 

[DavidMahler]

I feel my thread here has caused a lot of anger........

Honestly the point of it though was I have been itching for a good grado and wanted to know if there was a significant difference between a 300 dollar model and a 700 dollar model.......

The reason I never bothered to put up threads like this regarding sennheisers and beyerdynamics is while even though they all have similarities HD555, HD600 HD650, HD595...............DT770, DT880, DT990.....they all have MAJOR Similarities within their brand its true....BUT The reason why I was never perplexed as such is because the price range was not as extreme as Grado........for instance the HD600 / 650 can be equated in terms of position on the chain of their quality products with the RS1. The RS1 retails for $700 meanwhile I can have the 600 for probably under $300 and the HD650 for around $350. So while the less great sennheisers are all comparable in terms of frequency response and driver materials, we're not talking about a huge price increase and therefore it seems very feasible for me to purchase a 300 dollar headphone as opposed to a 200 dollar headphone.

On the other hand in the grado line we have RS1s which although I am aware sound absolutely nothing like the HD650/600 are ultimately compared in terms of where they present themselves on the chain of the Grado line and I assume the PS1000 would now be compared with the HD800 as where it is placed in the grado line. So the question is....
Considering the larger price jumps within than grado line than that of the Beyer / Sennheiser / AKG line, is it worth paying for their top model when it is 500 dollars more (not 100 dollars more like Sennheiser)......... This above comment/question is not meant to infuriate Grado fans and Grado users. I have the utmost respect for all head-fiers opinions and tastes. Please, if you can take into consideration my view, I would be very honored to hear from anyone who has experience with the Grado line and has a better understanding of what my intentions were than my original post....this thread was NOT meant to show how over rated grados are, but rather just express my concern with getting what you pay for.

 

[alphaphoenix]

I'm a Grado fan. I started with the SR60 and upgraded all the way up to the SR325i and settled on the SR225i. I even tried the HD600, but preferred the Grado sound. I take the specs with a grain of salt, but take seriously the experience of others and love reading their reviews before handing over my hard earned cash. One day RS1, one day you'll be mine.

 

[limpidglitch]

Phew! Heavy stuff.

Well, it all seems to be boiling down to that you need to get yourself a couple of grados and spend a few weeks deciding it for yourself, this thread is going in circles – we're getting dizzy, loosing direction.

 

[demoNMaCHiN3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavedave /img/forum/go_quote.gif People are too quick to spend there money and not ask questions because of the flack from everyone else. The truth is in this hobby and a lot of other things we have just got spoiled and don't think much about how we spend our money or who is cheating us by over charging us for something that didn't cost them much.

I agree completely. One of the biggest things I've noticed on this forum is that most people here are very uncomfortable about having this purchases questioned. Whenever they are confronted by a thread like this, they normally respond with a condescending, mocking attitude and immediately dismiss what the OP asked. If you don't want to justify your purchase, then don't, but there's no reason to mock/ridicule someone for asking a question.

 

[BigTony]

Actually the wine analogy is one worth remembering. What is the difference between a $10 and a $90 wine? Wine 'experts' will tell you about the soil, sun, slope, etc - but it basically boils down to- they make less 'good' wine, so they charge more for 'exclusivity'.
In the US - apart from 2-buck-chuck - wine is much much more expensive than in europe, even if i buy US wine imported, it costs me a fraction of the price i paid when stateside - for exactly the same wine. Why? Well its what the market will bare, in the US wine is an upmarket luxury, in eu - its as common as bottled water (and often cheaper).
I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons Senn picked a higher than expected price tag for the hd800 is that analysis of the market showed a willingnesd to pay $1400 for a headphone, and its no surprise that the US has recieved the hd800's first. Are the hd800 worth $1000 more than the hd650?

 

[myk7000]

i love the rs1s, they are my only headphone currently.
But i too will admit they are overpriced.

 

[mbd2884]

My post isn't for Grado FanBoys. Don't even bother replying if you are Grado Fanboy. Don't even bother reading as you'll probably just get angry and reply with the same response every Grado Fanboy does. And won't be able to argue my points either as you don't know anything about Grado Headphones, how they are made, or what is in them.

Hell I think the HD650 is overpriced. It's just some sort of polymer/plastic, with a thin film diaphragm, two strong neodymium magnets with an aluminum voice coil. Is it really worth $350? With the research that went to make these with no standing waves...but at least there is an understanding of how it's made, where it's made and the research went into it. People buy Grados knowing absolutely nothing about them. Believing whatever junk John tells them with really no proof. Some believe everything is made in Brooklyn, cause he got a tour, but haven't seen Grados actually being MADE. Assembled and made are two different things. No one here can dispute whether all Grado drivers are the same, simply because we don't even know if Grado makes them, highly unlikely. It's very amusing to see people throw down $700 for something they know nothing about. No matter how good something sounds, I won't buy something I don't know about, that's just stupid in my opinion. Everything I've purchased I ask why is this priced this and for what reason... what makes this better than that. With Grado on Head-Fi there is no questioning. And if someone does question, they just get flamed and people return to their content and happy ignorance.

Reading John's description of the PS1000 on the Grado website is absolutely hilarious. It's almost as bad as SAA marketing. It's purely made for Audiophiles who won't question. There is no information at all except deceptive language. Continuing Grado innnovation, a hybrid of metal alloy and wooden housing. Big freaking deal, rofl. Lots of laughs. Then continues on how this is so amazing with the sound of the wood. Also says drivers are changed, not new, not different but improved. Yeah whatever John. He even goes on to talk about how special the cushions are. We're talking about junk foam, that apparently if you wash, tons of black filth comes out of. But the way he writes about these cushions and their amazing attributes to create the Grado sound is no better than the description for the SAA Voice cable or the incredible slab of rock that improves your sound or some whacky clock. Even for the GS1000i, he spends almost full two paragraphs talking about his cushions. What?

My favorite is he features a magazine article that says Grado chose wood for the GS1000i for what it doesn't do. Screw up the music with unwanted resonance. Anyone with half a brain knows wood is highly resonant and it does exactly that, mess with the sound with unwanted resonance. Let me think why flat response monitors aren't made with mahogany. Even outside reviews of Grado products are a joke I think.

Only someone who uses such deceptive, flowery language which in the end says nothing about the product has something to hide. There is nothing in that description that explains to anyone why these headphones are worth $1,700. Is it because John thinks these are the best headphones he has ever heard? Yeah that's a great reason... Oh wait it's because the drivers in the PS1000 are working hard to create a nice sound. That's the reason! There it is!

Now if you go to any other headphone company they don't talk about foam cushions. They talk about the innovations that went into their drviers, the technology and research behind. You can even find white papers and technical papers about them. Can find information for patents for them. They try to sell their headphones with real data and and convince their consumers that they are buying something different from their competitors. Just look at the marketing for the HD800. It's marketed as an innovative design using a radial design never before implemented in a headphone. And then go on to explain how this radial design affects how the sound waves are created and what improvements to expect. Not gibberish about hybrid of wood and alloy and foam cushions.

In the end it's my opinion only. How the rest of Head-Fi chooses to spend their money is not my business and if anyone who buys without knowing what it is they bought, well good for them. Happy whatever, doesn't matter. Your choice not mine. Who cares if the SR60 and PS1000 uses essentially the driver or not, some person will buy them and like them. And John probably won't be changing his marketing methods of deceptive and gibberish language or the prices because he sells plenty. So no matter how many times someone questions, we won't know. I doubt John will ever reveal who actually makes his drivers and the actual differences among his products. He's been very secretive so far and successful selling them, why change right? Yeah, I don't care, this is my last post bashing Grado as I really don't care. If someone likes them, good for them, that's it. Plenty of other headphones and wonderful threads and discussions on these forums.

 

[cavedave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually the wine analogy is one worth remembering. What is the difference between a $10 and a $90 wine? Wine 'experts' will tell you about the soil, sun, slope, etc - but it basically boils down to- they make less 'good' wine, so they charge more for 'exclusivity'. In the US - apart from 2-buck-chuck - wine is much much more expensive than in europe, even if i buy US wine imported, it costs me a fraction of the price i paid when stateside - for exactly the same wine. Why? Well its what the market will bare, in the US wine is an upmarket luxury, in eu - its as common as bottled water (and often cheaper). I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons Senn picked a higher than expected price tag for the hd800 is that analysis of the market showed a willingnesd to pay $1400 for a headphone, and its no surprise that the US has recieved the hd800's first. Are the hd800 worth $1000 more than the hd650?

Talk about hitting the nail right on the head.

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif So the question is.... Considering the larger price jumps within than grado line than that of the Beyer / Sennheiser / AKG line, is it worth paying for their top model when it is 500 dollars more (not 100 dollars more like Sennheiser).........

David, no one on this board can answer that question for you. We can only share with you our value judgments and explain our decision-making process. Whether it bears any relevance to your situation is for you to decide. I don't see anything wrong with tying to arrive at a value judgment. I argued this point in the HD800 appreciation thread. I'm always asking myself if it is "worth it," and there is always risk in any purchase that you will end up disappointed.

What is it that you think you are paying for in a headphone? Are you buying sound? Aesthetics? Build quality? Forget about Grado for a moment and apply the question to any headphone. Is the HD800, for example, worth nearly $1,100 more than the HD650/600 (which by a lot of accounts are already excellent headpones)? Is it worth $1,400? By what criteria do you judge its worth?

I recently bought a pair of GS-1000s. I always wanted to try them but had trouble persuading myself that they were a good use of $1,000. And I apply that value judgment to any headphone that sells for more than $1,000 -- not just Grados. The solution for me was to buy them used, and I found a pair for $675 in FS forum. So for less than the retail price of a new pair of RS-1s I got to try the GS-1000s, and I felt much better about the value proposition. As it turns out I actually like the GS-1000s quite a bit. But I didn't know that in advance, and it was the uncertainty that made me a bit skittish.

It is also what makes me a bit leary about buying the HD800 or a Stax setup. I'm not interested in "different" sounding headphones. For a premium price I want premium sound, and to me that translates into sound that approaches what a good pair of loudspeakers can do. I won't say that aestethics and build quality are not important to me. They are. But form takes a back seat to function. On the other hand, I would not buy a headphone if it looked like to two piles of dog poop strapped to my head no matter how great they sounded. So there are limits to how far I will go. I think the HD800s are rather hideous looking, but I have to admit that I am interested -- though perhaps not right now. I have other headphone priorities that will keep my busy for the next three months or so.

Then there is the AKG K1000. Yes, they are discontinued and they are a unique headphone to be sure. As I recall the price was about $700. People are paying $1,200 and more for used ones now. Why? I can't answer that for anyone else. But I have a pair on the way that should be here in a few days. The K1000 was discontinued at about the time I became a serious headphone listener. I had a mild fascination with them over the past few years and noted what people were paying for the privilege of trying them. While I have found something to like in just about every headphone I have owned, none were without weaknesses and none sounded anything like loudspeakers. The latter was my attraction to the K1000. As it turned out I was the recipient of an amazing deal on mine but I was prepared to pay as much as $1,300 to try them. I put that value on them for their promise of a speaker-like presentation. If I was judging them on looks alone I might value them at $100 or so.

I can tell you from first-hand experience that the Grado GS-1000 sounds nothing at all like the RS-1s, which also sounds different from the SR-325. Someone else might tell you they all sound the same. What is it that you expect to be different in the RS-1s or GS-1000s from the lower priced models? I expect them to sound better (naturally what goes into "better" sound might be different for someone else).

--Jerome

 

[moogoob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpidglitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Phew! Heavy stuff. Well, it all seems to be boiling down to that you need to get yourself a couple of grados and spend a few weeks deciding it for yourself, this thread is going in circles – we're getting dizzy, loosing direction.

The thread lost direction on the first page. Each page since has been goading the merry-go-round even faster.

But I do agree- try Grados, and if you find they are not worth the price, sell 'em. I'm keeping my Goldies, thank you very much.