[jsaliga]

Yeah...had I known that David had another Grado thread running that was started just a few days ago I would never have bothered wasting my time posting.

Unsubscribed. I'm out.

--Jerome

 

[CTechKid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif I feel my thread here has caused a lot of anger........ Honestly the point of it though was I have been itching for a good grado and wanted to know if there was a significant difference between a 300 dollar model and a 700 dollar model....... The reason I never bothered to put up threads like this regarding sennheisers and beyerdynamics is while even though they all have similarities HD555, HD600 HD650, HD595...............DT770, DT880, DT990.....they all have MAJOR Similarities within their brand its true....BUT The reason why I was never perplexed as such is because the price range was not as extreme as Grado........for instance the HD600 / 650 can be equated in terms of position on the chain of their quality products with the RS1. The RS1 retails for $700 meanwhile I can have the 600 for probably under $300 and the HD650 for around $350. So while the less great sennheisers are all comparable in terms of frequency response and driver materials, we're not talking about a huge price increase and therefore it seems very feasible for me to purchase a 300 dollar headphone as opposed to a 200 dollar headphone. On the other hand in the grado line we have RS1s which although I am aware sound absolutely nothing like the HD650/600 are ultimately compared in terms of where they present themselves on the chain of the Grado line and I assume the PS1000 would now be compared with the HD800 as where it is placed in the grado line. So the question is.... Considering the larger price jumps within than grado line than that of the Beyer / Sennheiser / AKG line, is it worth paying for their top model when it is 500 dollars more (not 100 dollars more like Sennheiser)......... This above comment/question is not meant to infuriate Grado fans and Grado users. I have the utmost respect for all head-fiers opinions and tastes. Please, if you can take into consideration my view, I would be very honored to hear from anyone who has experience with the Grado line and has a better understanding of what my intentions were than my original post....this thread was NOT meant to show how over rated grados are, but rather just express my concern with getting what you pay for.

Your comparison criteria between manufacturers is far too linear. There is no reason that the RS-1 and HD800 can't be compared, and viewed as rivals. IMO the hierarchy of different tiers of headphones under one manufacturer isn't unidirectional. There can be 2 or more models on each tier of competition. For example, one can argue that the RS-1, GS1000, and PS1000 all share the same tier of high end sound in the Grado line, however each model satisfies a different hi-fi sound and/or need.

 

[k3oxkjo]

As someone who bought his first Grado Phono Cart about 30 years ago and has a good friend who is a Grado dealer, their business model has been consistant through the years.

Basically, they work out a product design that they are happy with then refine the components (rather than redesign them) as the retail price ascends. This sometimes involves using better materials (headphone driver enclosures, phone cartridge bodies etc.) sometimes better spec'ed components (phono diamond polish and alignment, hp driver quality and matching etc.). The better of which they charge you more for, and why not? A great artist may take the same time to paint two different canvases, but he will charge more for the more successful painting.

So this is what you are paying for. To me, Grado is honest, they don't try to jive you otherwise.

As for value, to use another painting analogy, it's like having your car painted. Earl Schieb (I am REALLY dating myself) does a decent job, the guys at the specialist auto paint places charge a lot more. Is it worth it? I depends on what you see when you gaze into the finish and into your wallet.

Best, Kevin

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by V-DiV /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do find that there is way too much uncivil discourse on these forums. I don't understand the regular angry responses. This is a hobby. Everyone has their own view. Some people spend way too much time hobbying and bantering in the forums and have learned a lot and have developed their ears and audio knowledge. Other people, just as earnest, spend a lot of time at productive things and haven't had as much time to be experts in this hobby. A simple observation and question shouldn't incite an angry response. If it is deemed naive, one could constructively explain why, in a friendly tone. Alternatively, ignore it and go on to a more interesting thread.

I've often thought as much while reading these threads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavedave People are too quick to spend there money and not ask questions because of the flack from everyone else. The truth is in this hobby and a lot of other things we have just got spoiled and don't think much about how we spend our money or who is cheating us by over charging us for something that didn't cost them much.

Ditto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demoNMaCHiN3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree completely. One of the biggest things I've noticed on this forum is that most people here are very uncomfortable about having this purchases questioned. Whenever they are confronted by a thread like this, they normally respond with a condescending, mocking attitude and immediately dismiss what the OP asked. If you don't want to justify your purchase, then don't, but there's no reason to mock/ridicule someone for asking a question.

Yup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTony Actually the wine analogy is one worth remembering. What is the difference between a $10 and a $90 wine? Wine 'experts' will tell you about the soil, sun, slope, etc - but it basically boils down to- they make less 'good' wine, so they charge more for 'exclusivity'. In the US - apart from 2-buck-chuck - wine is much much more expensive than in europe, even if i buy US wine imported, it costs me a fraction of the price i paid when stateside - for exactly the same wine. Why? Well its what the market will bare, in the US wine is an upmarket luxury, in eu - its as common as bottled water (and often cheaper). I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons Senn picked a higher than expected price tag for the hd800 is that analysis of the market showed a willingnesd to pay $1400 for a headphone, and its no surprise that the US has recieved the hd800's first. Are the hd800 worth $1000 more than the hd650?

Also true. The next "flagship" phone will almost certainly be priced in the HD800/PS1000 range, as Head-fiers (whom such phones are marketed to) have demonstrated a willingness to purchase them in large numbers. The flagships will, naturally, be declared the best phones currently available, and the pressure to justify such purchases will lead to even more ardent dismissals of dissenters, as seen in this thread. There's a very noticeable pecking order of gear on Head-fi as compared to other forums I've browsed (in musical instruments, in cameras, in bicycles, in laptops). It's fine (and expected) to state more expensive phones (amps, sources, etc) sound better than less expensive ones. It's fine to state one phone sounds better than an equally expensive one. It isn't fine (with a few notable exceptions) to state less expensive phones sound equal to (never mind better than) more expensive phones. Those who do are derided for having deficient ears or deficient gear (or both). This benefits both the manufacturers and sponsors (who have no small presence on this site) and individual owners of the more expensive gear who, naturally, would feel foolish if the overriding consensus of the forums were that the less expensive gear sounded just as good as the more expensive gear.

As a result, the quickest way to fit into the forums is to either A.) buy expensive gear and urge others to do so or B.) buy cheap gear and aspire toward more expensive gear. Works out nicely for the sponsors and gives the people who've sunk money into the gear a place where people admire them for having done so, which is understandably rare offline. Challenging the status quo of accepted hierarchies (as a few HFers periodically do now and then) results in much ire and hostility, for reasons described above. Dissenters quickly fade into the background, and the market economy continues unfettered. It's efficient, if predictable.

 

[ting.mike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd be first to say that with regards to Sennheiser the HD650 and HD600 are VERY much alike

What matters more? How they are similar, or how they are different?