[Rakooon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTony /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 'SQ' vs 'Cost' argumemt can rage eternally - basically we buy what we like, and justify the expense.

Question Settled !

 

[CDBacklash]

after the RA1 "controversy" (if you can call it that), i'd like to see someone doubleblind the SR line just for fun (although I expect they would pass)

 

[Shoreman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio /img/forum/go_quote.gif That in mind, here's how I'd describe my particular RS1. I find the RS1 to be forward, warm, and creamy. The liquidity of the phone is interesting, given that while it flows easily it is able to naturally begin or end any phrase, no matter how staccato it might be. As opposed to other Grado headphones, it layers audio quite well and I find the depth preferable to a wide soundstage that is more akin to sitting inside a gigantic eggshell; you're able to pick out the position of any given sound but the overall image is thin and little exists behind it. Reaching back through the depth of the overall RS1 tone is delightful, as if your ears are trained you'll continually be able to find and focus on new parts of a good recording. There's a general sweetness to the sound that exists primarily in the mid to upper register; the timbre of string, electric, and vocal instruments has a fine texture to it that I haven't found in any headphone other than the R10 or the Orpheus. The HP1000 has this as well, but it takes much longer to "sink in" to its particular head space. And, unfortunately, none of these things can be seen on a frequency chart, aside from a focus on the middle and upper register.

As a new RS-1 owner, I thank you for this. Extremely well put.

As a guy who majored in English/Writing in college (and who believes the language is lost on so many these days), I thank you for the quality of your writing and expression. I find it utterly refreshing.

 

[robm321]

Bottom line is, the difference is significant in sound. I don't even enjoy the 225s after owning the RS-1s and the 225s are very good, much better than the SR60.

The materials are not much different except for the wood. Just like the HD650 probably cost about the same as the HD800 to make. The HD800 is plastic and a ring driver. Grado is wood and plastic with standard dynamic driver. It's how it's tuned that makes a difference. If either were mass produced, they would probably cost $50 each. It's the fact that this is a niche product that makes the price a premium. We aren't getting ripped off either, it's hard for audio companies to survive and make a profit because of the small volume.

As far as singling Grado out. That's a bit silly since it's the case with every headphone manufacturer. But I know that your intentions weren't to flame Grado. I just think the "worth it" idea should have to do more with results and not what they are made of. If you can make one that sounds the same, then you can save the money... but you can't. So, you pay a premium. And the SR60 while being a great value doesn't hold a candle to the upper end Grados. In fact, it's embarrassed by them IMO (no subtle difference) - sorry about your wallet

.

 

[V-DiV]

While frequency response is just one aspect of sound quality, I found David's observation interesting. I had SR225 for a short time (liked the sound but not the discomfort), so I guess the tonal balance of the higher Grado's would be similar, even if they probably do a better job of resolving, etc. It should be noted that frequency response graphs are logarithmic so the absolute differences are larger than they appear (but then there is the ear's ability to resolve differences). On the other hand the similarity of the shapes of the curves is telling.

I do find that there is way too much uncivil discourse on these forums. I don't understand the regular angry responses. This is a hobby. Everyone has their own view. Some people spend way too much time hobbying and bantering in the forums and have learned a lot and have developed their ears and audio knowledge. Other people, just as earnest, spend a lot of time at productive things and haven't had as much time to be experts in this hobby. A simple observation and question shouldn't incite an angry response. If it is deemed naive, one could constructively explain why, in a friendly tone. Alternatively, ignore it and go on to a more interesting thread.

 

[fjrabon]

To me, the FR chart basically just represents the overall sound signature. So you're essentially saying that all Grados have the house sound. Which is true to anybody who has heard many Grados and compared them to other major brands. The difference in price doesn't come from the difference is sound signature, it comes from things like transient response, THD, resolution, leading edge attack, bass speed, how well it responds with both a very high powered signal and a low powered one, etc.

 

[geremy]

Well, the only grados I listen to with any regularity are the 325is and SR-60. To say that there is no difference is just silly. Aside from sharing the same basic mid-range forwardness, they sound completely different to me.

 

[Punnisher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by geremy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, the only grados I listen to with any regularity are the 325is and SR-60. To say that there is no difference is just silly. Aside from sharing the same basic mid-range forwardness, they sound completely different to me.

I second this.

However, right when I got my SR325i I could have swore that there was no difference between them and my SR60. Spending a lot of time with both is paramount to understanding their differences.

 

[Baimi]

Why do you feel compelled to justify the difference in price for headphones? If the SR60 and RS1 don't sound different to you (which obviously sound different to many head fiers here and yours truly), just get the SR60 and move on! I recall you owning numerous pieces of high end audio equipment and it really seems ridiculous to me that you were perfectly fine with paying premium prices for those but you had to openly raise your uninformed doubts on these cans. Hell I had friends who aren't serious about this hobby and even they could tell the difference between the SR225 and RS1.

Yeah I guess I am kinda offended and I totally relate to how Mercuttio feels about the subject matter.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as singling Grado out. That's a bit silly since it's the case with every headphone manufacturer

I 100% agree with this. Beyer DT880, DT990 and DT770 use the same driver. Stax SR-303, SR-404, and 4070 use the same driver. Sen HD600 and HD580 use the same driver. AKG K500, 501, 401 are all very similar as well. Many Sony and Denon headphones use very similar drivers and construction. Yet when you listen to these headphones they all sound slightly different within their house signature sound. You pay premium for better driver matching, special doping, cables and other minor construction tricks that eek out that very last 1% that is so important to people that listen for that last percent....

 

[Cankin]

Try some ultra expensive cryo silver cable and cheap monoprice cable.

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your responses to me have been very informative, but I can't help feeling that this thread offends you some how.

Come now David. It is not so much what you are saying. It is how you go about saying it.

First there's the topic title.

Quote:

Something very strange about Grados

Then there is this.

Quote:

So here's my question which I will take a beating for: Are you really paying a 500 dollar premium for a super small deviation in sound quality when it comes to grado headphones?

You seem like a bright, educated person. Does it really surprise you that someone might read that and see it as a critique of people who buy the more expensive Grado headphones? That those who spend hundreds on the higher end models aren't that much better off than people who opt for Grados that appeal to the budget-minded listener. It's a rather backhanded way of provoking people. Perhaps that wasn't your intention but in your opening post you seem to acknowledge that you might be ruffling some feathers.

--Jerome

 

[abellaw]

A question to the OP that might not be directly related to the thread but are you a fan of the Grado "house" sound.

From the limited time i have spent with the higher end grados i would say that as you move up the chain you get an improvement of that house sound. Like i would describe the HF-2 as SR80 on steroids. The sound is much fuller the bass impact is tighter and stronger. The mids are much more present and the highs are far less piercing.

Would i say that these headphones are 4 times better than the Sr-80s, no i wouldn't. But do i think that the difference between the headphones is worth 4 times the price, without a doubt.

I love Grados and i am not going to insult you or your hearing to better prove my point, but i feel that this question can only be answered by spending extensive time with the different models.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio /img/forum/go_quote.gif You've been here a few years, can you really make so foolish a mistake as to equate frequency response to quality of audio?

I can't agree with you more. There is way more to how music sounds through headphones that a damn frequency response chart.

I've owned the SR125, SR225i, SR325is and now RS1 (buttonless) and there is a major difference between all of them with the RS1s sitting at the top of the heap of the Grado lineup (please note that I have not yet heard the PS1000 but I do prefer them to the GS1000).

 

[ph0rk]

Study: $90 wine tastes better than the same wine at $10 | Underexposed - CNET News

The brain's pleasure centers fire up more when the brain "knows" an item costs more.

The OPs questions are valid, in my opinion. The only way for the OP to know for certain whether the differences between the upper end grados matters is to do that thing with the D a B and a T in it, on their own (with a helper, of course). If the differences don't merit the cost for the OP, the end. It is pretty obvious it is a waste of time to take what anyone else says about something as subjective as audio aesthetics without a rather large grain of salt.