[tewt]

I just purchased an M-Audio Sonica after hearing many good things about it, so that I could use the digital output and connect to the MSB Link III I also just bought.

The thing is that I'm still really disappointed with the sound. Each time I added a better component I got mad because the sound quality didn't change AT ALL as far as I could tell. I keep buying upgrades and am still stuck with the same crappy sound coming from my computer. To make sure it wasn't the computer I even hooked up a cd player with digital out and played a real CD and the sound was still the same: muffled, lacking dynamics, and definately lacking bass.

Since I've upgraded almost every component but my amp, I am now questioning its performace. It's an NAD C350, which should be a pretty decent amp, but I feel there is something wrong with it, and have no real way to find out. I bought the amp refurbished by the company, so now I'm thinking maybe someone returned it because of this crappy performance, and the company didn't really test it enough to find the problem. The only way for me to get it fixed is by sending it back to the company for warranty repair because there are no local dealers, so I'd be without it for a couple of weeks probably.

I don't really know what the point of this post was, but I guess now I'm thinking shouldn't the DAC or Sonica at least have made some changes in the sound? I can't really notice anything different and I've tried A/B tests many times. The one thing I noticed was that by using the Sonica the noise level dropped quite a bit, but I can only tell when I have the amp at full volume, and even now there still is quite a bit of hiss, more than I would expect.

 

[TimSchirmer]

...If it helps, NAD does have a very distinctive sound... It might also be your speakers...

your best bet is to borrow a reciever from someone and see if there is any difference (or you could buy one and return it)

 

[bootman]

Can you list your equipment chain?

 

[tewt]

Sources include Sony CD Player (digital/analog outs), CD-ROM drive, mp3 and wav files ripped from my own CDs. From the computer the M-Audio Sonica is providing a Toslink jack connected by a Sound Professionals Glass Toslink to the MSB Link DAC III, connected by cheap RCA cables to the NAD C350 amp, driving Axiom M22ti speakers connected by Monster XP cables. My power cables are stock and I have tried placing the equipment on different surge protectors and on the same and different grounds as my computer.

 

[Pepsione1]

Sometimes is because of personal preference rather then improper equipment. May I ask what your audio gear history is? Maybe you are not used the sound.

 

[tewt]

Well I really don't have any prior gear as a reference point, but I do know that the sound is really muffled and sounds basically like a blanket is covering the speakers.

 

[carlo]

If these speakers are sitting on a desk you've found your problem. There's a post in the archives with suggestions on how to work around that situation.

If you aren't limited by a desk spend some more time with placement (go to the audioasylum FAQ for excellent papers on this) and make sure the stands are sturdy. Your problems scream of placement errors.

good luck.

 

[markl]

Quote:

The thing is that I'm still really disappointed with the sound. Each time I added a better component I got mad because the sound quality didn't change AT ALL as far as I could tell. I keep buying upgrades and am still stuck with the same crappy sound coming from my computer.

Are you using HD600s?

But seriously... a certain segment of the board membership gets mad at me every time I say stuff like this, but IMO your problem is your source, and more specifically, your source material-- mp3s. No matter if you plug your mp3 player/files into a Senn Orpheus, there's no way any component can "add back" information to a recording that's simply not there in the first place. All you will get is a clearer picture of the sonic doo-doo. Remember "garbage in garbage out". I would humbly suggest to you that you concentrate on getting a stand alone CDP of good quality instead of a better computer board. Then-- buy some CDs! Especially those released/re-mastered after 1997 or so.

To me the above is the surest way to upgrade and get more satisfaction out of your music.

Mark

 

[dd3mon]

To propose another point of view - click the "quality" link after going to www.r3mix.net - links to a comparison made by a german hi-fi magazine that compared mp3s to CD on really high end equipment (B&W 803 speakers & Sennheiser Orpheus). Results showed 90% of 128kbps mp3s could be picked out for being worse quality than CD, but 256kbps mp3s were indistinguishable from the CD. I don't know the specifics of the test here, (sources, etc), but I know similar tests have been replicated. Using the EAC/LAME preset standard approach to making mp3s, I'd challenge anyone to ABX the difference between that and a WAV (uncompressed). Check out the link from r3mix's page if you can read german =D (yes - I know the controversy regarding r3mix's LAME presets - this is linked to off his site, so it's not of his doing)

The question of soundcard sources is still up in the air. I have no problem accepting that the dacs/outputs from a computer soundcard are definitely inferior to a decent standalone cdp (due to emi & power supply issues mainly). However the question that persists in my mind (that no one has answered yet despite many askings) - how does the digital out from a good soundcard (ie not resampled) compare to the digital out from a good transport? If there's a discrepancy would a device such as the Monarchy DIP make them equals?

-dd3mon

 

[aeberbach]

markl, you must have missed this bit:

Quote:

To make sure it wasn't the computer I even hooked up a cd player with digital out and played a real CD and the sound was still the same

It's pretty clear the problem is something other than the source.

I don't know why you have to keep saying it. You're wrong to generalize MP3s as bad, certainly some are and some aren't.

 

[markl]

Aberbach,
I saw that. He's playing mp3 files on his CDP, not CDs. As I stated, and this is my belief, if you play back an mp3 file on a Senn Orpheus, it will still sound like crap, just give you a better picture of crap. No source upgrade will benefit him unless he buys CDs, that was the essence of my post.

And I'm no defender of the CD format either-- I hope it dies soon so SACD/DVD-A can take over with their undeniably superior resolution.

Mark

 

[00940]

Quote:

Originally posted by tewt Sources include Sony CD Player (digital/analog outs), CD-ROM drive, mp3 and wav files ripped from my own CDs.

If the wav files sound as bad as the rest, it isn't a mp3 problem markl...

 

[aeberbach]

Quote:

He's playing mp3 files on his CDP, not CDs.

No:

Quote:

I even hooked up a cd player with digital out and played a real CD

The source does not seem to be the problem.

 

[JahJahBinks]

Quote:

Originally posted by dd3mon I'd challenge anyone to ABX the difference between that and a WAV (uncompressed). Check out the link from r3mix's page if you can read german =D (yes - I know the controversy regarding r3mix's LAME presets - this is linked to off his site, so it's not of his doing)

I know someone who can tell the difference between 256 and 320 on a 30 dollar sony headphone, you want to contact him?

 

[nebuchadnezzar]

Quote:

I'm no defender of the CD format either-- I hope it dies soon

oh, my