Some questions and JMT Amp?
Apr 20, 2002 at 7:15 AM Post #16 of 33
I wouldn't necessarily call it "Grain". It's really artifacts due to the compression. My ER4Ps have definitely made me a more critical listener. I had no idea how many bad cd recordings I had in my collection until I got them as well as the Grados.
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 8:00 AM Post #17 of 33
I've heard the Hansen board (CHA47, although the "A47" implies it's an Apheard 47 design, which it's not) compared very favorably to a HeadRoom Old Supreme, which IIRC was in the $400 range.
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 8:11 AM Post #18 of 33
Quote:

CHA47, although the "A47" implies it's an Apheard 47 design, which it's not


Why not? It's the circuit Apheared made for his 47 amp, but placed on a Hansen PCB for convenience.
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 8:27 AM Post #19 of 33
The harshness you're hearing on the vocal "s" sounds is known as sibilance. A lot of it could be due to your source. The quality of downloaded MP3s is notoriously suspect. In most cases, better quality cans are going to be more revealing and less forgiving of your source material. Have you thought of switching to a PCD player instead of considering the Nomad?
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 9:50 AM Post #20 of 33
Quote:

Originally posted by OneMalt
The harshness you're hearing on the vocal "s" sounds is known as sibilance. A lot of it could be due to your source. The quality of downloaded MP3s is notoriously suspect. In most cases, better quality cans are going to be more revealing and less forgiving of your source material. Have you thought of switching to a PCD player instead of considering the Nomad?


The thing is I hear grain or simblance with the HD280 on both the iPod as 320kbps mp3 and a PCDP, so that's why I'm not too concerned with the ipod or the mp3's being a bad source, because it sounds just as good as my PCDP. The mp3's are ripped off my own CD's using the LAME encoder, btw. And it only happens on some albums, so I'm guessing it's just poor quality recording. But I haven't considered using a PCDP in about a year since I got the Nomad Jukebox 1, then the iPod 3 months ago. I already bought the NJB3 just to test out, as I can always sell it.
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 2:15 PM Post #21 of 33
Well, I can't fault the process if you're ripping your own using lame @ 320. Perhaps you just have an extraordinary set of ears and as archosman suggested, you're going to hear digital artifacts no mater how good the compression scheme is.
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 3:19 PM Post #22 of 33
Quote:

And it only happens on some albums, so I'm guessing it's just poor quality recording.


I think this is the problem...just because it's an MP3 doesn't necessarily lead to greater sibilance, in my experience. Far from it.
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 3:35 PM Post #23 of 33
Quote:

Originally posted by shivohum

just because it's an MP3 doesn't necessarily lead to greater sibilance, in my experience. Far from it.


I have no argument with that. My comment was directed at stuff you would download online. You have no control over (or idea about) things like compression scheme, DSP, number of times it's been up and downloaded, etc. My major beef is that there is no way to control the consistency of a recording you haven't done yourself. (Sorry for wandering OT).
 
Apr 20, 2002 at 6:55 PM Post #24 of 33
Possum- Is it? I was under the impression that the Hansen board was a different amplifer; Apheared himself said this several times.
 
Apr 23, 2002 at 8:30 AM Post #25 of 33
Ok, so now I need some final advice/opinions

I have iPod, with mostly rock, as my source. Looking for open headphones that sound lots better than Senn HD497 and HD280. Not sure if the Grado's meet this demand or not. I like good bass (not boomy or exaggerated) and I dislike brightness and harsh highs. Grain or simblance is inherent in the stuff I listen to, so I'd like the headphones to possibly minimize it. A headphone amp may be bought later on. So what should I get? These will be the FINAL headphones I'll ever buy (hopefully) for a long long long long time.

- Senn 600 for $230
- Senn 580 for $150
- Grado SR80
- Grado SR125
- any other suggestions?

I'm not sure if I'll like the Grado sound though. Although the 580/600 don't sound their best off a portable, I'll be happy to spend the money if they noticably sound better than the 497 or 280, until I can get a portable amp.

Please give me some final advice before I spend.
 
Apr 23, 2002 at 1:05 PM Post #26 of 33
[size=xx-small]WARNING - Personal opinon alert [/size]

Why anyone would go for a beautiful, small, portable device like the iPod and hamstring it with huge (albeit high-quality) cans, or an external amp, is beyond me. Ety's, Koss KSC35's, or Sony 888's seem like better design matches (in that order) for portable use. But hey, thats me.

The 'scratchiness' you refer to can come from a couple of places. First is artifacts from your mp3 recording methods. But from your description of your ripping/coding process sounds pretty good (as mp3's go) so I doubt that is it. Next is siblilance output from your headphones. My Senn 280's sounded fine straight out of the box, requiring virtually no break-in time. A small number of 280 owners have reported the need for break in, or worse - really bad sound. It is suspected that this smaller subset may be from a batch of early models that were not as good as later manufactured models. Third, and more likely here is your CD's original recording quality. I am no audiophile, even I have noticed the wide range of quality and properties originating from the music companies these days. I have Travis' first CD, and although I am a fan, the recording quality is not great. Lots of pops & crackles, and such. Phones that emphasize, or have clear highs will show this more than bassier cans. My Sportapros are more tolerable with that type of music than the 280's or the other better cans your mention

Although the Senns and Grado's you list are all high quality cans, I would not recommend them for your particular use. My personal recommendation is the Koss KSC-35's. Much, much more comfortable than, way more portable, and sound almost as good as the Grado 60's which would probably be my next, distant choice.
 
Apr 23, 2002 at 6:02 PM Post #27 of 33
Very interesting thread, and a heck of a problem to solve on a message board, without real-life comparisons.

I agree with most everything that's been said, as strange as that may sound, given the diversity of views. Everyone who's posted has offered thoughtful information and sincere opinions, which, of course, leaves Taphil much better informed, but still struggling with his original question.

Well, let's see. I certainly understand the logic of jpelg's last post. Koss KSC-35 earclips do seem an almost perfect design match for the iPod. Much better than the earbuds that come with the iPod, and yet not so far above it in quality or size as to make an awkward odd couple kind of marriage. For $30, the KSC-35 is truly one of the best buys in the entire world-'o-heaphones.

On the other hand, Taphil, I can appreciate your wish for a higher-end solution to get the most out of these new technologies. So much of the American-dream-obsession around personal computers and consumer electronics is simply bogus pie-in-the-sky. In real life, most of this crap doesn't work half as elegantly or effectively as the advertising hype makes out.

The iTunes/iPod combination, however, is among the notable exceptions---software/hardware that is truly well-designed, effective, with elegant user-interfaces, and that makes life easier and more enjoyable. While I have nothing against those with the means and desire to go after audio perfection---filling whole rooms with ultra-expensive gear and insisting on only the most pristine source material---those solutions are unsuited to my temperament and limited budget. And yours as well, I presume.

I listen almost exclusively to mp3s these days---from the iTunes player of my Pismo Powerbook. My mp3s are either downloaded from the internet or ripped at 192K from my own CD collection.

I love having hundreds of hours of music instantly available on my laptop. With iTunes, making my own custom playlists is a snap, and the music I want to hear is instant-access, right from my desk. I am so relieved not having to hassle with all that organizing, searching through, and changing CDs, or buying some beaucoup-bucks 200-CD jukebox-changer.

The downside compromise, of course, is that mp3 compression is undeniably low-fi technology---I can indeed hear digital artifacts and compression drop-out on many cuts. I've recently begun experimenting with Orb Vorbis compression for the Mac, but I haven't yet decided whether it's worth the considerable investment of additional time.

I own both Senn HD580 and Alessandro MS-1 (equivalent to a Grado SR-125) cans, along with a beautiful little CHA47 amp I bought from erix, who built it. So my chain goes from mp3s in iTunes through the Powerbook soundcard to a Markertek interconnect to the CHA47 to the MS-1 to my ears. It may not be perfect, but it's damn good, and, more to the point, it makes me happy.

I can tell you that my CHA47 does NOT drive the Senn 580 to anything near its innate potential. I say this not because the Senn sounds bad (it doesn't---it sounds great), but rather because it's not significantly BETTER than the Alessandro. In fact, I prefer the MS-1. So I presume that the Senn would benefit by an upgrade from my $85 CHA47 to the next leg up at around $350 for a Corda Headamp-1, a Headroom Little, or an Antique Soundlabs MG Head.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

--Bill
 
Apr 23, 2002 at 8:08 PM Post #28 of 33
I listen almost exclusively to mp3s these days---from the iTunes player of my Pismo Powerbook. My mp3s are either downloaded from the internet or ripped at 192K from my own CD collection.

I love having hundreds of hours of music instantly available on my laptop. With iTunes, making my own custom playlists is a snap, and the music I want to hear is instant-access, right from my desk. I am so relieved not having to hassle with all that organizing, searching through, and changing CDs, or buying some beaucoup-bucks 200-CD jukebox-changer.

The downside compromise, of course, is that mp3 compression is undeniably low-fi technology---I can indeed hear digital artifacts and compression drop-out on many cuts. I've recently begun experimenting with Orb Vorbis compression for the Mac, but I haven't yet decided whether it's worth the considerable investment of additional time.
QUOTE]

Same here... from CD to Archos jukebox ripped at 256kbps. When I went to using my ER4Ps and Grado 325s I found that 192kbps was not enough... to many artifacts. I still here them from time to time at 256... but it's not as noticeable. I've got probably about 150 cds on my 20 gig drive.
 
Apr 23, 2002 at 8:11 PM Post #29 of 33
jpelg - I understand what you're saying. For portable use, like in a library or walking, I use the iPod with MX400. Or I have PortaPro's for portable use. But for sitting on my bed or somewhere in my dorm or lounge, I like the iPod and some good big headphones. So that's why I've been looking for bulky high-end headphones. My 280's sounded bad out of the box, but after 100 hours of use they're great. It's just the simblance that bugs me, and I think it's from the recording, so I can't do anything about that except use headphones that don't emphasize it.

Autumnal - Who needs a Mac or iTunes to use an iPod. It works flawlessly on a PC
cool.gif


So my concern in the end is just whether spending money for those cans or anything better would be worth it. I still don't know what to decide on.
 
Apr 23, 2002 at 9:04 PM Post #30 of 33
...that if our newbie here just *listened* to a pair of Grados with his iPod, say 60's, 80's or 125's, he would easily pick them over most all of the other ones mentioned, especially the Senns.

Dude: your best bet is to try them all out, for instance, by ordering a bunch from HeadRoom, trying them out and then returning the ones you don't want. They would love to have you do that. Besides, I'm confident (since I like rock, too...Pulp, The Smiths, Fugazi, etc.) that you're gonna dig the Grados the most. They are gonna put you "at the show" or "in the studio," and those are great places to be!

Best,
Matt
 

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